Author Topic: Poor Cold Running - Sputters, Backfires, Hesitates, Dies  (Read 9736 times)

Offline kuhnzoo

  • Garage guy
  • **
  • Posts: 14
Re: Poor Cold Running - Sputters, Backfires, Hesitates, Dies
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2013, 08:49:13 PM »
Installed carb. Fired right up once the bowl filled. APT started at 3 turns from bottom. After warming, took it for a drive to check out part throttle response. Some part throttle hesitation still, so I turned 1/2 turn CCW each time and took for a test drive. At about 5 turns from bottom, throttle response seems OK.

Idles high still.???

Any comments on primary jet/rod combo?

Wish I could just buy a new or known good remanufactured carb for my truck, I don't have time for all this. Can't tell if problems are tune/adjustment related or the carb is ready for the scrap heap...

Offline kuhnzoo

  • Garage guy
  • **
  • Posts: 14
Re: Poor Cold Running - Sputters, Backfires, Hesitates, Dies
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2013, 05:45:20 AM »
Fired the truck up this morning. She always starts nice and that is a plus. Drove into work (about 20 miles) and it is driving much better since adjusting the APT. She still does not like to run until FULLY warmed up... that short transition between the choke disengaging (I have the coil set for about 4.5 minutes in this cold weather) and steady-state, fully  warm.

Part throttle hesitation is much reduced at 5 turns on APT. Still some small lag, not a crisp throttle at cruise or off idle yet. Is there a rough guideline to turning out the APT where one says, "that is too much, there is some other problem."? I don't want to lift the rods out of the jets too far.

Again, thanks to all for past and future responses/replies.

Rob

Offline kuhnzoo

  • Garage guy
  • **
  • Posts: 14
Re: Poor Cold Running - Sputters, Backfires, Hesitates, Dies
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2013, 10:36:12 PM »
Took carb apart again. Yes, it does have the idle bypass air passages and the lower gasket did not block them. I plugged and sealed them. Doing this did lower the idle speed some and also eliminated a strange whistle that would occur just as the throttle plates were cracked open. So, I am guessing this was a good thing.

Checked out float level - OK

There was no clip from the needle to the float arm. Should be one there, correct?

Put a straight edge across front of air horn - warped quite a bit. ??

Cruise runs good with APT turned out about 5 turns. Seems like more turns than I heard others speak of. Is this OK or is that too many turns?

Also, never heard any comments about the primary 72 jet / 51M rod combo. I still have some slight hesitation off cruise and off-idle if I am aggressive on the pedal. The truck originally had a 305 CID engine with approximately 185hp that was replaced by a new GM Goodwrench 305 CID with approximately 230hp. Would a smaller rod help?

Thanks.

Rob

Offline Cliff Ruggles

  • Administrator
  • Qjet Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5418
Re: Poor Cold Running - Sputters, Backfires, Hesitates, Dies
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2013, 05:09:54 AM »
"Part throttle hesitation is much reduced at 5 turns on APT. Still some small lag, not a crisp throttle at cruise or off idle yet."

Still too lean at 5 turns (APT maxxed out) indicates low fuel level, or possible a vacuum leak someplace.  This would also explain not being able to get the engine to idle without blocking off the bypass air.

I would imagine your "builder" used the wrong fuel inlet seat, and float setting at the low factory spec. 

I would install the correct needle/seat assembly, and set the float at 9/32".  This will raise the fuel level and richen things up everywhere without changing jets and metering rods.

I'm also betting that the secondary throttle plates are leaking too much air around them, or the linkage is preventing the primary plates from fully closing.  Aside from a vacuum leak, or WAY too much timing at idle, no other reason it woln't idle down on the stop screw.

I see a LOT of folks having very similar issues as you are having.  Quite a few of those carbs end up here for custom tuning.  Near 100 percent of them have the float too low, and leaking air around the throttle plate(s).  100 percent have the wrong needle/seat assembly, and nearly that many have bent power piston hanger arms.

Folks, this isn't all that difficult, but it does require exact precision.  Just making one little mistake like not pulling the idle tubes and cleaning the crud out of them will get less than satisfactory results when the carb is placed in service.

Installing the wrong parts will do the same thing.  This is why one of the first things we recommend, is to install one of our kits, to get the correct parts in the carb, and up to par for modern fuels.  Once that is done, and float set correctly, we can start to effectively troubleshoot to find any issues that you are having........Cliff

Offline kuhnzoo

  • Garage guy
  • **
  • Posts: 14
Re: Poor Cold Running - Sputters, Backfires, Hesitates, Dies
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2013, 11:55:27 AM »
Cliff, everyone, thanks for the responses, tips, and suggestions.

Float is at low setting. I had read that the later model year carbs should be set at about .420". That is where it was when I checked it. Guess that is too low and should be reset to 9/32". Do not know how to tell if needle and seat are correct. Seat does have the windows on the sides... not sure if that is an indication of being correct or still could be the wrong one.

As for the secondary plates, I did look at them when I separated the bowl section from the throttle plate section. I could see light around the edges, but not much. I would think there would be some light "leakage" since the plates are not going to conform exactly to their respective bores. Or maybe I am making an incorrect assumption and there is still enough air leaking by to affect the idle?

Linkage to secondaries is not keeping the primaries from fully closing.

Power piston hanger arms are perpendicular to power piston axis. I am assuming that is how they should be.

Initial timing is 8 degrees BTDC and vacuum advance is connected to ported vacuum (confirmed 0 inHg vacuum at idle with vacuum gage).

Well, I will stop hogging up the forum and give this topic a rest for awhile.

Thank you again for all the help and suggestions.

Rob

Offline Cliff Ruggles

  • Administrator
  • Qjet Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5418
Re: Poor Cold Running - Sputters, Backfires, Hesitates, Dies
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2013, 03:37:00 AM »
The fuel inlet seat should have a .135" hole in it.  Unlikely that it does, and it will effect the fuel level in the carb at any float setting....Cliff