Author Topic: Repairing a main well plug leak  (Read 731 times)

Offline Cadman-iac

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Repairing a main well plug leak
« on: January 30, 2025, 09:59:21 AM »
  I've been rebuilding carbs since 1980, and you used to be able to get a kit from Napa for these that had a pair of new plugs with an O-ring under the lip as well as the foam gasket that would sit between the body and throttle plate, (which really didn't do anything but soak up fuel if it leaked), it was Echlin part number 2-85. But I just recently went in to Napa to get some more, (it's been over 20 years since I last bought some) and they say it’s no longer available.
 Cliff, what do you recommend to use if a plug needs replaced/ repaired? Tapping the hole and using a pipe plug?
 I'm curious since I'm down to my last pair of reusable (used) plugs from Napa.
 I just installed a new set into a 17057512 and they began leaking within a week. I pulled them back out and found that the O-rings had cracked, either from age, or more likely from the fuel.
 I installed a new set of O-rings for the larger of the two fuel injection lines on a TBI system, which turned out to be exactly the same size, so they should last a while now.
 But what would you recommend to fix the well leakage problem?

  Rick

Offline Kenth

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Re: Repairing a main well plug leak
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2025, 11:12:14 AM »
Thread the holes, 1968 and earlier 1/2" UNF, and cut a screw or rod and use with some thread sealant and you´ll have a permanent fix.
It´s very rare to find 1969 or later Qjets leaking but if the plugs are removed for whatever reason you may thread 7/16" UNF for plugs.
I would avoid the band aid O-ring kits like the plague.

Offline Cadman-iac

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Re: Repairing a main well plug leak
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2025, 11:54:34 AM »
 Good to know, I was thinking about trying to tap an old core just to see if it's possible, but you answered my question before I could do that.

 Yeah, the O-ringed plugs are not a perfect solution to this, but it was the only thing that I had found up til now that would work for a while if it was necessary to replace the original plugs.
 I hadn't ran into a leaky one for years, thus the lack of knowledge on the discontinuation of the Napa plugs.
 
 I just began to set up my 88 3/4 ton Suburban with a carburetor after having problems getting the computer and TBI to play nice with the roller cam in the rebuilt engine. 
 I began to look into re-chipping the computer to make it all work, but since you can't just go down to the parts store and  buy a recalibrated chip, and having one made is questionable as to compatability, I decided to just go old school with it.
 I'm not regretting my decision either, it's got a lot more power with the Quadrajet than it ever had with the throttle body injection.
 The lobotomy has been successful!!

 I wasn't aware that Cliff had set up a website just for Quadrajets, I only found out about it from asking questions online and the site came up. So glad I found it too. I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions for you guys if you don't mind.
 Thanks for your help,
 Rick

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: Repairing a main well plug leak
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2025, 04:13:00 AM »
Let's back up for just a minute and talk about "leaking bottom plugs".

For the most parts it is a "myth" and tens of thousand of Quadrajets get needlessly "butchered" by folks who follow the advice of others (who should for sure keep their day-jobs) that the bottom plugs were leaking in the first place.

So let's skip rumor, myth and drama and get to the facts.

From 1965-to 1968 the leak rate for the rear pressed in brass "cup" plugs is right at 100 percent.  Yes, even on NOS carbs right out of the GM boxes I can put soap/water over those plugs and blow compressed air into the secondary disc holes and get a stream of bubbles from them.  On used units most leak like Niagra Falls.

In 1969 due to a LOT of problems and warranty issues in that area they made the castings thicker in that area, then pressed in solid aluminum plugs and swaged over them.  Problem solved.

The leak rate after 1969 is next to zero, but in any and ALL cases the rear plugs should be pressure tested.  If you find a leak, 99.9 percent of the time you can simply re-swage the material around those plugs with a small machinist hammer and good to go for another 50 years or so.

The factory continued after 1969 to do a better and better job of sealing up bottom plugs and most later carbs just aren't leaking.

Let's talk for a minute about the front plugs.  Early carbs also had front plug leaking issues, but at not near the rate of the rear plugs. Initially the factory just used lead plugs driven into those holes and you'll find a few leaking here and there.

A leaking front plug is DEVASTATING as it's in the vacuum path of the intake and not only allows raw fuel to be sucked into the engine when it's in use they leak after shut-down causing a flooding condition after the vehicle sits for a short period of time.

So, in any and all cases part of a good rebuild should include leak testing ALL the bottom plugs and only making repairs if/as needed.

Methods of repair vary some, but as Kenth mentioned the "O" ring repairs are absolutely USELESS and always have been.  Carbs that have came in here with that repair have a 100 percent leak rate right past that crap.

Repairs of the 1968 and older rear cup plugs is more difficult than later models.  Here I "spin" out the cup plugs with a tight fitting drill bit, bead blast the plugs and casting, degrease, then put them back in with Marine Tex.  That has proven to be a 100 percent successful repair.  If the cup plugs are long gone I do over to the lathe and machine a pair that very carefully drive in place (the castings are thin and split easily) and glue them in and over with Marine Tex, same end result.

For ALL front plugs, whether lead or the later swaged aluminum I very carefully drill them out avoiding pushing them deep into the casting and tap the holes for 10-32 steel set screws 1/4" long.  The castings are warmed up, degreased and the threads of the 10-32 set screws lightly coated with Marine Tex and torqued in place.  This a 100 percent effective repair for that issue.

I offer a bottom plug repair kit on the website, but urge folks to leak test your carb BEFORE making any type of repair.

I'd also add here that "dabbing" any sort of epoxy over leaking bottom plugs is a complete waste of time/funds and about as effective as cutting your arm off and putting a band aid on it!.....hope this helps some....

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: Repairing a main well plug leak
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2025, 04:25:11 AM »
Adding to the previous response folks need to realize here that there are a LOT of folks out there who provide advice on this and other topics who have about as much time doing this as I spent on the crapper this morning.  I moderate on this site and several others and not a single day goes by I don't see folks responding to questions and providing help that simply have no idea whatsoever what they are talking about or any real World experience with these topics.

The reader needs to be aware of that going in and sort thru and make an educated decision as whether or not to follow much of this advice, or not.

Common myths about Q-jets are as follows.

The bottom plugs are leaking.

The fuel bowl is too small.

They are "junk".

It's either a "750" or "800" cfm carb.

They will not work with "big" HP.

Blue accl pump seals are "ethanol resistant".

Put a brass float in it, the black ones sink.

They are not big enough for big power levels.

Throw it away and put an Edelbrock or Holley on it if you want to go faster (here we reverse that deal).

There are more "myths" feel free to list them in a response.  Below is what you can do with a $20 swap meet core on a pretty "basic" street/strip car.  The car is a 1968 Pontiac Firebird, 400 cid, factory cast iron "D" port (standard heads), flat tappet cam, and a 1969 smaller "750" cfm carb.


https://www.facebook.com/brentwilliam.flynn/videos/821130332784502

Offline Cadman-iac

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Re: Repairing a main well plug leak
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2025, 08:37:36 AM »
  Cliff,

 I used your method to test the well plugs on the 17057512 after having AFR issues that made no sense.  The plugs were leaking and I tried tapping the swagged edges to seal them before resorting to replacing them.  I have only had a few carburetors that had leaking well plugs, the last one was over 20 years ago and at that time the only way I knew of to fix it was that O-ringed plug kit from Napa.
 I couldn't find how you do it in your book, thus the question posted previously.
 
 I appreciate your knowledge on this and thank you for taking the time to read and respond to this. Your book is a great help to me, I wish I had found it sooner. I bought it from a bookstore for 25 bucks last century if memory serves.
 I have 2 other books on Quadrajets, one  that was published back when the CCC carbs were still being made in 1986 by Doug Roe, the other in '73 by him and Bill Fisher.  Neither of those went into the depth that yours does. And Doug's method of repairing the well plugs was to spread goo over them.
 That's why when I found out about the O-ring plugs back then I figured that was the best fix to date. I know that testing those using air pressure can't be done with the base removed, as it's the base that keeps them in place, so you don't really know if they leak unless you see fuel saturation in the pocket and on the gasket, or you pull them back out and look at the O-rings for cracking like i suspected was happening. Tapping and plugging is the best way for sure, and now that I know it's possible I'll be doing it this way from now on.

 Oh, and I agree, the Quadrajet is the best carburetor ever designed, or I wouldn't have been collecting and using them for the last 30 plus years. I made the mistake of running a Holley once, I quickly replaced it with a Q-Jet.

 Rick

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: Repairing a main well plug leak
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2025, 03:26:26 AM »
"I couldn't find how you do it in your book, thus the question posted previously"

Bottom plug leak testing and repair is covered at the beginning of Chapter 5 pages 71-72.

Offline Cadman-iac

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Re: Repairing a main well plug leak
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2025, 01:25:00 PM »
"I couldn't find how you do it in your book, thus the question posted previously"

Bottom plug leak testing and repair is covered at the beginning of Chapter 5 pages 71-72.

 I see that now, just looked at the book. I had read that years ago but hadn't had a carburetor that needed the plugs replaced until just recently and I had forgotten about what you said and went with what I had done in the past. I won't make this mistake again, thanks.