My M4MED Q-Jet and my FJ-60 Landcruiser 383 swap in

[dougbert]

Cliff,

you just finished my base plate rebuild, as I was called and paid for it today, with new Mixture screws. Thanks.

The number for that M4MED is 17085231 (With the dual capacity pump valve). I will shortly be sending to you the main portion and the air horn for dichromate plating service. I will then order your HP rebuild kit and you will be calling for specifics on the application as to what to put in the kit. So here is a start.

This carb came off a donor engine I got for free. I have the engine (4 bolt mains) now stripped down to bare block and will use it to build a 383, which I intend to put into my 5300 lbs 1986 FJ-60 Landcruiser down the road.

I have never designed, nor built a 350 before, but helped my dad, 40 years ago on a 1966 mustang, and want to learn and do this right. I have mostly rebuilt my FJ-60, first by learning what to do, then doing it. Most recent was doing the head.  Block going at 227,000 miles.

My goal is to to put a 383 torque engine in the FJ-60.  My plan is to have the block:

a) main crank bore aligned
b) decked
c) torque plate cylinder bored
d) crack checked, etc

I have identified the following major part components as a beginning straw man design:

a) 383 Eagle B13454E - Eagle Street Performance Rotating Assemblies  - http://www.jegs.com/i/Eagle/356/B13454E/10002/-1?parentProductId=763943

Internal balanced

b) Roller CAM  http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=CL08-409-8&Category_Code=

Comp Cams Extreme 4x4    1000 to 5000 RPM range.   206/210 @ .050  LSA 111  Valve life .458

c) Head, now I was/am looking at some Vortec heads, but on the phone you indicated I was getting too big of heads for a torquing (the 2.02/1.6) engine. [This is where I don't know my engine "tricks" as to what works - just learning]

I am looking at Patriot Performance 2151, http://www.jegs.com/i/Patriot+Performance/723/2151/10002/-1  which you were not familiar with. You indicated you liked World Products heads.

d) Edelbrock dual plane manifold

I guess I am asking for review of above to see if I am on the right track and directions. I prefer torque for the FJ-60.  Never will go over 85mph - just not done.

Once that is in place, I can then ask for help on the Q-Jet Recipe

thanks

dougbert

[dougbert]

Compression  9.9:1 with a 64cc chamber

[dougbert]

More info:  4.11 gearing,  12.5x33 wheels,  NV4500 tranny to be installed as well

[Cliff Ruggles]

 Vortec heads are excellent for what you are doing, and cost effective as well. 

Is the Comp Cam a flat or Hydrauilic Roller?

I like the NV4500 transmission, excellent way to go, they are very tough units....Cliff

[dougbert]

A fellow local CruiserHead, has this same retro roller CAM for early blocks. His quote:

On the cam I would recomend staying under 212 at .050 for drivable, usable torque. I have used cams with durations of 220 @ .050 and while they do make loads of power, it really isn't what I would want for a Land Cruiser or any other heavy vehicle. The mileage goes down too, especially with a carb. Cams designed for carbs often have more overlap than FI will tolerate. I was very pleased with my original Comp Cams carb cam, which was 206/210 @ .050 with .458 lift, one for their Extreme 4X4 line [the X4258HR]. It made more torque and HP and delivered better mileage than I had expected it to. I run shorty headers and I routed the passenger side around and under the front of the engine to avoid hitting the diff or being directly under the oil pan.

end quote


with 1.6 rocker arms.

For the Vortec heads, I am now considering the GMPP Bowtie Vortec heads with the smaller values. It is a more sturdy design from GM, over and above their original Vortec head back in 1996. Will allow up to .530 valve lift. More expensive, yes, but built stronger with more engineering given the 15 years of data from the earlier head.

I am looking for tough power train. I might do as this fellow and replace the rear diff with a stronger unit as well which will make tying to the NV4500 easier than an adapter to match Chev/Toyota parts together. (This would give me disk brakes and get rid of the drums)

BTW, you should be getting my Q-Jet this week, and in there I indicated a larger CAM (I spoke with the Comp CAMs tech and I think he just read off his script instead of listening to me) with 220/224 @.050.  I think this will be bigger than I want, so I will need to tune with the smaller CAM

So you should probably call me when putting together the HP rebuild kit

thanks for the input.

doug

[Cliff Ruggles]

Cams with tighter LSA's increase overlap, all else being equal.  They also pull power down in the rpm range, and narrow up the power curve some.

This is why the factory cams have very wide LSA's.  The idle good, broad power curve, and still pull hard at high rpm's.

Aftermarket camshaft advertise much quicker opening/closing ramps (shorter seat to seat timing), and claim the better lobes make up the difference in opportunities to move air, so they can pull down the LSA some.  This also provides some "attitude" at idle and low speeds.

What it really does from what I've seen here, is raise cylinder pressure sharply in a narrow rpm range, and early in the rpm range.  This can increase octane requirements significantly, and in extreme cases cause tuning and detonation issues......Cliff

[dougbert]

Cliff I appreciate this information on the CAM principles.

Since I have been studying the Comp CAMs, I am learning "their" viewpoint.

The Extreme 4x4 line I am looking at, has 111 LSA and 107 ICL, while their Extreme Energy is 110 LSA and 106 ICL.

Their Thumper line have 107 LSA and 102 ICL.

They then vary the durations and lift within each of those family lines.

So I see the effect you are talking about,  tighter LSA and ICL, the more overlap, etc.

What I am also trying to compare/understand is what stock production used for LSA and ICL.  I am a software engineer and love numbers to compare things with.

I am ignorant on these things, but hope to learn fast.

thx

doug

[dougbert]

I found on the web Vortec CAM specs (If they are true anyway)

The Vortec 350's/305's all use the same cam grind. In fact the B/D body Lt1 350's and B/D 4.3V8's use the same cam as the vortec 305/350's do.191º/196º 0.414"/.428" lift on a 111º LSA.

endquote

So the CC 4x4 series have the same LSA, but more duration and higher lift.  Things are making more sense to me.

doug

[Cliff Ruggles]

Look a bit further into factory camshafts for the higher output engines. 

A very good cam for a SBC is the LT4 "Hot" cam, hydraulic roller.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-24502586

A 355 needs at least 10 to 1 compression to effectively use it, 9.5 or so in a 383 build.  EASILY makes 400hp in a well set-up 383 or 400.  Good idle, strong off idle, and broad power curve.

Also consider, when playing around with cams, CID, compression, etc, for every full point of compression increase, the cam needs to be increased apprx 10 degrees in duration as well, or cylinder pressure goes up accordingly.  This assumes the base cam was a good choice right to start with.

I've dyno'd Comp's XE flat cams, and street/strip evaluated them......and if I told you the results, and what I thought of them, they would put a "contract" out on me!.....FWIW.....Cliff

[dougbert]

Interesting. I know that CAMs bring many variations and different results, and it is difficult for a novice to "get it right" the first time out. But I can try.

Unfortunately, the block I have is a 1983 350 and not the LT4, though I will see if they have one for the older SBC (but probably not). Thank you for the reference. I will keep that for "future" projects.

interesting insight on CC

doug