Cliff's Quadrajet Parts and Rebuild Kits

Quadrajet Problem Solving => Diagnose a Quadrajet carburetor problem => Topic started by: fussfeld on July 04, 2021, 05:06:52 PM

Title: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 04, 2021, 05:06:52 PM
Background:
HEI ignition
Stock-ish cam---like 184/195 @ .50"---- so decent vacuum etc.

Only thing that was done, immediately prior to this problem was to adjust the secondary throttle  plates(not air flaps,  the plates) to open more.

Prior to all this, the engine would start within 1 crankshaft revolution if not less cold.   Hot, it would start with a little cranking and maybe sometimes pushing the pedal down about 1/2 way---still very acceptable to me.




So, where we stand now is the engine may not start cold---50/50 chance.  And even  if it does start, it doesn't start normally----more of a putter to start with lots of cranking.    The engine WILL NOT start hot unless you wait at least an hour.

Here is a video to better illustrate:   We see here at about 9 seconds we hear the electric fuel pump come on.   Then at about 15 seconds, i give it a shot of gas.   Then about 7 seconds of cranking and only when i press the pedal down---(look closely at the top left corner to see the accelerator pump pushrod move)  does it start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCqjXfUrdco

What would this tend to indicate?     Also, i know the choke flap probably shouldn't be flopping around during cranking.  i have since fixed that, but it didn't make a difference.






Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: 77cruiser on July 05, 2021, 06:46:28 AM
Have you tried a couple of pumps on the gas pedal?
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 05, 2021, 08:21:41 AM
Not yet.
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 05, 2021, 08:47:59 AM
You'll notice it only started when i gave it another shot of gas.   Since the choke was closed (yes i know flopping around, but still generally closed), thus when i gave it more gas the throttle opened too, but did not let it more air (choke unloader  isn't adjusted right). Does this indicate i am lean and thus need more fuel as you suggested?
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 05, 2021, 01:54:21 PM
Tried 3 pumps before starting.   No real difference----it only started when i stepped on the pedal.
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: Kenth on July 06, 2021, 12:49:49 AM
Do you have proper voltage/current to the HEI at all times?
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 06, 2021, 05:34:56 AM
Do you have proper voltage/current to the HEI at all times?

i would  assume so.   i can get it started---just with a lot of cranking and some pedal.
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 06, 2021, 05:41:09 AM
i think i need to add here (after unable to sleep at 3pm for a while and had time to think),that the engine just does not want to run below 800 rpm.   So, i feel this is likely tied in with the hot start problem-----If that's the lowest i can get it run and it shuts off at 800, then IF things were normal, if i were to restart it, it would idle at 800.   But it DOESN'T WANT to run at 800----so why would it start?

So, that's the hot start issue.


Cold start?  i don't know yet.




Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: Kenth on July 06, 2021, 07:17:13 AM
There is no room for assumtions.
A weak ignition system is a good recipe for hard starts and a poorly running engine.
You need to check and verify the ignition system ahead of adjusting the carb.
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 07, 2021, 04:56:03 AM
i agree that ignition should be checked before carb.   But wouldn't the video tend to indicate that ignition likely is NOT the problem?


Anyways, then, what's the best way to check the ignition?
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: tayto on July 07, 2021, 11:04:46 AM
confirm battery voltage @ 12v plug at distributor
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 11, 2021, 12:08:42 PM
There is no room for assumtions.
A weak ignition system is a good recipe for hard starts and a poorly running engine.
You need to check and verify the ignition system ahead of adjusting the carb.

Pls see below:
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 11, 2021, 12:11:19 PM
confirm battery voltage @ 12v plug at distributor

Note: i don't know  the EXACT  numbers (because i didn't write  them down---lesson learned) but they are  close.

Battery sitting =  12.56
Battery while cranking =  11.50 ish

Voltage at red/ ignition wire with key "on"  =   12.56
Voltage at red/ ignition wire while cranking =   10.8 ish.    Is this good enough for HEI to start engine?
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: 73ss on July 11, 2021, 06:31:37 PM
Sounds about normal. factory HEI setup or originally points?
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: tayto on July 11, 2021, 11:16:13 PM
2 Volts is a lot IMO. Could be a voltage drop in the ignition switch. If you are careful you can take apart and clean the contacts. I use contact cleaner only, do not sand the contacts. I've even got lucky just spraying contact cleaner in the switch and working it.
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: Kenth on July 12, 2021, 12:24:00 AM
Anyways, then, what's the best way to check the ignition?

With engine running, check the voltage at BAT post on HEI.
Should be the same as over + and - on battery.
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 12, 2021, 08:25:04 PM
Sounds about normal. factory HEI setup or originally points?

HEI
Title: Re: No start/hard start, engine cold or hot:
Post by: fussfeld on July 17, 2021, 03:52:22 PM
UPDATE:

i basically got it (somehow) back to normal:  It starts within 1-2 crankshaft revolutions.

All i did different was to take the idle tubes out, blow them out with compressed air and ran a wire thru them.  Also, blew the area below the idle tubes (idle wells?) out.

i'm not 100% convinced this solved the problem because i did not see dirt or debris come out.

Nevertheless, the cold no start/hard start seems to be solved?


i was previously afraid to take the tubes out because i had never done it before.   But i followed the directions in the book and they came out rather easy.