Cliff's Quadrajet Parts and Rebuild Kits
General Category => Quadrajet Carb Talk and Tips => Topic started by: Cadman-iac on November 16, 2025, 06:00:51 PM
-
I'm gonna try one more carb on this truck, but I want to make sure it's set up exactly like it was when it left the factory.
Can someone please supply the stock specifications for this 17050213 please?
Many thanks for your help, Rick.
-
I mistyped the carb number, it should be a 17080213. Thanks
-
I don’t have the official book but have overhauled a few:
Primary jet 72
Primary rod 50M
Secondary rod DP
-
I've got them for a 17082213. This was a "rear pull-off" carb that I pulled off a '82 Suburban in a junkyard. It looked original and did not appear to be a remanufactured carb, but I cannot guarantee it. I don't know if specs changed from 1980 to 1982 for a '213' carb? I rebuilt it pretty much stock with just minor tweaks (secondary metering rods, and POE sizes) and ran it on a mild 396 for a while. Seemed to work OK.
Here is what I measured for stock specs:
-
I don’t have the official book but have overhauled a few:
Primary jet 72
Primary rod 50M
Secondary rod DP
Thanks for the information, I see that my jets and rods are a match, my secondary rods are aDR though, not sure if there's much difference, gotta check Cliff's chart.
Much appreciated.
-
Thanks for the information, I see that my jets and rods are a match, my secondary rods are aDR though, not sure if there's much difference, gotta check Cliff's chart.
Much appreciated.
… let me know if you need the other specs(bleeds) and what not.
-
I've got them for a 17082213. This was a "rear pull-off" carb that I pulled off a '82 Suburban in a junkyard. It looked original and did not appear to be a remanufactured carb, but I cannot guarantee it. I don't know if specs changed from 1980 to 1982 for a '213' carb? I rebuilt it pretty much stock with just minor tweaks (secondary metering rods, and POE sizes) and ran it on a mild 396 for a while. Seemed to work OK.
Here is what I measured for stock specs:
Yeah, I don't know what differences there were between the years either, but given that the emissions standards changed every year, there's probably something that's different between them, but who knows what.
This was a dual pull-off carb, but I changed it to just the front and made another one of those brackets for the air valve stop and changed the shaft for one that uses the front pull-off.
Not a fan of the rear pull-offs, too big, hard to adjust the rate, and they stick out in the way on a lot of vehicles.
I wonder if the idle discharge ports and the bypass sizes are the same between these?
I measured mine at .054 for the discharge ports, and .055 for the bypass air. Quite a bit of difference. Now I've gotta wonder if the base plate has been switched.
My idle tubes are .028,
DCR'S are .054
UIAB is .069
LIAB is .062
PAB is .051
Nozzle bleeds are .029
Jets are #72
Rods are #49M
Accel pump nozzles are .025
Secondary rods- DR
Hanger is an N
Sec. bleed tubes, .026
Sec. well holes, .039
Sec. accel nozzles, .033
So it's close, but is it right? I have no idea.
Thanks for checking all this, I definitely appreciate it.
Rick
-
… let me know if you need the other specs(bleeds) and what not.
Yes, if you don't mind, let’s see what you have. I want to be sure this is as close to stock as possible before I use it to test the truck.
I don't know if this is a carburetor problem or if there's something wrong with something on the truck.
This will be number 4, so if all 4 show the same results, I seriously doubt it's a carb issue, and I'll have to figure out what else it could be.
Thank you for taking the time to help out.
Rick
-
Air lid:
Main bleed/single….051”
SPOE….046”
Emulsion tubes ….026”
Acceleration discharge holes…026”
Main body:
Idle tubes…031”ish
IDCR….055”
LIB….062”
UIB….069”
Well jets ..039”
Baseplate:
Idle mix….062”ish
Idle bypass….109”
-
On your measurements, you are listing SPOE at .046, is this the discharge holes in the front of the secondary barrels just above the air valve?
Something I've noticed just the other day is that these holes are bigger where they open into the barrels, but if you check farther down inside of these holes, they step down in size, I think that's the actual restriction for the secondary pullover enrichment system.
I've always just checked what size the openings were, and I've never had any match with the specs. So I probed with a thinner wire inside of these and I could feel it hitting a ridge. I also pulled the tubes to be sure I was getting all the way down the hole, you can see your tool in the hole for the tube when it goes in far enough.
The main body measurements all are either exactly the same or just the tiniest bit of difference, which is great. The air horn measurements are the same way. The base plate is what's off, so I think this one must have been switched out at some point.
Again, my thanks for taking the time to do all that.
-
This is what i have on the 1980 350 HD Truck 17080213 Rochester and Carter units.
-
This is what i have on the 1980 350 HD Truck 17080213 Rochester and Carter units.
That's very very helpful, thank you Kenth. So it appears that the base plate has been switched, but with this information I should be able to set it up correctly. I've already drilled the mixture discharge ports to .108, and the bypass air is not hard to change.
Your list explains the differences between what MCX and Novadude have provided and what I've measured. This looks like a combination of both Rochester and Carter. I wonder if it's a high altitude calibration.
My thanks to MCX, Novadude and Kenth for your help with this, it's much appreciated.
-
Correction: I've already drilled the bypass for .108 set screws, the idle mixture holes I've still got to size to .086.
I was just rereading my post and realized I put in the wrong information.
-
Based on Kenth's info, it looks like the 17082213 and 17080213 are pretty close. What I have listed as POE for my 17080213 are the discharge holes above flaps. For some reason, I did not document the well re-fill holes.
-
Based on Kenth's info, it looks like the 17082213 and 17080213 are pretty close. What I have listed as POE for my 17080213 are the discharge holes above flaps. For some reason, I did not document the well re-fill holes.
True, I don't know if it would matter if I used either of the specs as long as they're all from the same carb.
-
Well, this carburetor runs rich from off-idle to 3500 rpm. It's not the timing.
I noticed that this one has a .016" smaller LIAB than the other 3 previous carbs, so is this the whole problem with the other 3, the LIAB's were just too big?
And how would I get this one to lean out a bit in the off-idle to 1500rpm range? Enlarge the LIAB'S slightly?
Something else I noticed is that the jet/rod combination in this 17080213 carb, (#72/49M), has a cruise metering area of 2.19 thousands of a square inch, yet runs much richer than two of the other carburetors that have a jet/rod, (#72/44 from Cliff), metering area of 2.55 thousands of a square inch, and the 3rd one has a metering area of 2.52 thousands of a square inch, (#70/41K). What's up with that?
Does the LIAB's have that much effect on the AFR?
-
Have you tried adjusting the APT on this carb? How's heavy part throttle?
-
Have you tried adjusting the APT on this carb? How's heavy part throttle?
No, not yet, it was just getting dark when I got back from the test drive. I do need to look at that, I didn't think about it being set too high. I set it at 3 3/4 turns according to the specs I got from Kenth. I thought it was a bit much right off the bat, I don't usually run it up until I try it set at minimum first. But since I was trying to set this one up exactly like it left the factory I figured I'd try it and see how it works.
I'll give that a try before I do anything else.
But if this doesn't change it, would the LIAB's be a possible cause?
The heavy part throttle is rich as well. I don't remember the reading, I forgot to bring my recorder for notes this time. But it's definitely fat from top to bottom.
Im actually glad too, I was beginning to think I had some other problems with the engine instead of the carburetion. This just proved it.
Thanks for the suggestion.
-
I think the LIAB could definitely be part of the problem with the other carb. I've found that 0.062 vs 0.078 just seems to work better for off-idle. As for metering area... I don't think you can compare SMAB carbs with DMAB, as they seem to behave different with regards to main system metering area.
I've shrunk the LIABs with an old accelerator pump ball and a punch, and cleaned up with a drill. This doesn't always go smooth though, so be careful.
-
I think the LIAB could definitely be part of the problem with the other carb. I've found that 0.062 vs 0.078 just seems to work better for off-idle. As for metering area... I don't think you can compare SMAB carbs with DMAB, as they seem to behave different with regards to main system metering area.
Novadude,
The last carb was a SMAB, #17084226, and it had a larger metering area than this one does.
I'll start with adjusting the APT, and if it doesn't work I'll make the LIAB's on this 17080213 replaceable with set screws, and try smaller ones until it gets into an acceptable AFR range. Hopefully it doesn't change anything else. The higher RPM mixture can be fixed with the jet/rod combo and the APT setting.
The difference between these two is definitely confusing, but I'm gonna figure it out, it might take me a while, but I'll get there, (most likely with help from you guys).
-
I dug one up in my stash, it pretty crusty inside must have had water in it.
Maybe I go through it & see what happens.
-
It took me a while, but I've got it pretty close now. The off-idle mixture is much better, and the high speed mixture is right where it should be.
I had to increase the size of the LIAB'S to .072" from .062", and had to reduce the jet size from #72 to #70, keeping the 49M rods.
I've still got to dial in the secondary airvalve spring setting, stock is 1 turn, but it works much better at 3/4 turns. I need to get the secondary mixture right, i think it's gonna need a fatter rod to lean it out at WOT, it's just a bit rich yet.
I'll post the specs once it's done, both where it was and then where it ended up.
Thanks for the help in figuring it out.
Rick
-
How does it run? Are ya having fun?
-
How does it run? Are ya having fun?
Weeeeellll, im not sure I'd call it fun, but I am staying busy.
I think I've got the primary side pretty much dialed in. Gotta do one more road test to verify that tomorrow. The tip in test I had to do several times to get it to react like Cliff suggests, but its right on the money now. Goes up about 60-70 rpm when I close the choke partially, and it didn't react when I pulled off a vacuum line.
So here's where it wound up.
Stock. Now
Idle tubes, .038. .038
DCR'S, .054. .054
UIAB'S, .069. .069
LIAB'S, .062. .070
Bypass air, .105. .105
Idle dschg, .086. .086
Float, 12/32. 12/32
PAB-Body, N/A. N/A
PAB-Horn, .051. .051
Noz. Bleed, .029. .029
Main jets, #72. #70
Pri. Rods, 49M. 50M
P/V spring, orange. Blue
APT set, 3 3/4. 3 1/4
Sec. Rods. DP. DR
Hanger, K. K
SABT,s. .026. .026
Well holes, .039. .039
A/V spring, 3/4. 3/4
N/S asm. .135. .135
Now anything with the secondaries is still to be determined by testing yet to be done. I'll update once I've got the secondaries dialed in.
One thing that kept messing with me is that the AFR would fluctuate randomly like it had an internal leak, but multiple testing of the well plugs didn't reveal anything, and I kept remembering what Cliff says about these, "they seldom leak".
But I've seen how the AFR gage reacts to a leaky plug and I swear it's leaking.
Well after taking it apart after it sat overnight I noticed the pocket in the base plate was wet with fuel.
And I kept seeing wetness on the primary well plugs too, so I removed all of them and threaded the holes and installed plugs and Marine Tex, now the AFR is definitely more steady and it sounds better too.
-
Sounds like you did a great job.
-
Whats the 17080231"C" ?
This is what i have on the 1980 350 HD Truck 17080213 Rochester and Carter units.
[/quote
(https://cliffshighperformance.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5153.0;attach=3172;image)
-
C is the Carter mfd Quadrajet.
-
I have a Rochester 17080213 that had 73 jets and 49 rods
-
Well I've had to continue to calibrate this one, not sure why the results of the tip in test were spot on by Cliff's book, but on the road test it ran lean.
It took multiple jet and rod changes to pin down the right combination that yielded good results.
What's really weird is that with a 71 jet and a 44 rod it ran lean, but with a 72 jet and a 44 rod it ran rich.
I ended up going with 70 jet and a 41 rod to get the afr into the correct range. The 71/44 combo gives a cruise area of 2.43, which apparently is not enough, yet the 72/44 combo with an area of 2.55 proved too much.
So going through what I have on hand, I had a couple of options, a 69/40 giving me 2.48 cruise and 3.20 WOT, and a 70/41 with 2.52 cruise area and 3.31 WOT. And since the 72/44 combo was rich at WOT as well, with 2.55/3.54, the smaller jet/rod combination brought the AFR closer to optimum.
Even though it's running much better now, the tip in procedure is indicating that it's running rich.
I may have to try another combination to see just how far it will go, but I'll have to order a couple of rod sets in order to find out.
If I go with a 71/43, that'll give me a 2.50/3.42 cruise/WOT area, or a 72/45, which gives a 2.48/3.52, but that keeps the WOT area too big and too rich.
The other things I had to change were the air valve spring setting, that went back to 1 turn, and the secondary rods are now a pair of CT's instead of DP's. The WOT AFR is now around 11.0 at 3500 rpm.
I also had to go to a .067 on the LIAB's to get the off-idle mixture correct.
I tried advancing the timing to 16° initial, but I think that's a bit much, I'm afraid I won't hear any detonation if it occurs, so I reset it back to 10°.
On another note, I was getting a fluctuating AFR at idle still even after replacing the well plugs. It was much improved, but still noticeable. So upon disassembling it after leaving it sit overnight, I noticed that there was fuel in one of the small pockets next to the accelerator pump well, and the bypass air passage looked like it was wet as well.
Looking at the air horn it had a slight curve at the front, so I filed it flat in the hope of stopping any fuel from leaking into the bypass passage.
I haven't had it off and apart since installing order to check for leakage, but the AFR doesn't seem to fluctuate as much now.
It was going from 13.5 to 13.9 and back at idle, now the fluctuations are just like .2 instead of a .4.
Novadude, what is your AFR range when you're cruising at around 3000 rpm at light throttle? Mine runs around 15.2 to 15.5 and I'm wondering if it's still a bit rich.
And at a WOT, just how rich should your AFR be? I've been shooting for around 11.0 to 11.5, but I really don't know if that's too lean, or too rich, or just right.
My thanks again to you guys for all your help, Novadude, 77cruiser, Kenth, MCX, and Cliff.
-
I wanted to share how I locked out the secondaries this time. Last time I used a wire to keep the secondaries from opening by wrapping it around the lockout lever and the shaft. The problem with that method was that it caused the secondary throttle shaft to move to the right side and not allow the plates/blades to close correctly, resulting in a vacuum leak.
The wire apparently jammed between the base plate and the little pin that goes through the shaft.
So to prevent that this time I made a bracket that bolts to the side of the carb where a rear pull-off would typically go, and it fits against the pin in the shaft.
Another tip for locating an internal fuel leak is to use a blue Sharpie to color the surface around the suspected leak. If it is leaking, the ink will run showing the source.
Since it's not possible to use a camera to actually see what's going on inside the carburetor, I figured if you could use something to cover the surfaces that would come off with fuel, that would hopefully show you where it's leaking.
I initially tried this on the well plugs which revealed multiple leaks. So this time I "painted" the bypass air passages and set screws in the base plate, but I haven't taken the carb off and apart yet to see what is happening yet. When I do, I'll post a picture of the results.
Another thing that I do to keep the idle mixture screws in "synch" is to paint the heads of the screws so it's easier for me to see. I paint one half of the screw head with a red welding marker and the other half with a yellow marker.
Because I wear trifocal glasses it's sometimes hard to focus on the screws when I'm working on it in the evening, so this helps me see them better. If the red halves are both towards the left or right side, then I have them "synched". Its really easy to lose count of how far you've turned them, especially if your screwdriver slips off. I didn't think to get a picture of them though, but next time I've got the carb off I'll get one and post it.
-
At cruise mine runs about the same as yours, but at WOT I'm around 12.5 -13. I'm running non ethanol gas 91 oct.
-
Novadude, what is your AFR range when you're cruising at around 3000 rpm at light throttle? Mine runs around 15.2 to 15.5 and I'm wondering if it's still a bit rich.
And at a WOT, just how rich should your AFR be? I've been shooting for around 11.0 to 11.5, but I really don't know if that's too lean, or too rich, or just right.
My car with a Muncie and 3.36 gears and a ~26" tall tire runs down the highway at ~3100 rpm. I am right in that 15.2-15.5 AFR range. Crowding the throttle, it will swing to ~16.5:1 before power enrichment / secondary opening. WOT is ~12.5-13.0 range. Seems to get great MPG set-up this way, and there are no drivability issues. It is very responsive. At idle, the meter shows around 13.0, and light throttle in the < 15 to 40 mph range is 14.3-15.0.
-
At cruise mine runs about the same as yours, but at WOT I'm around 12.5 -13. I'm running non ethanol gas 91 oct.
I'm just running 87 octane pump gas with ethanol, my AFR at WOTwas hitting as rich as 10.0, and probably worse, but the gage will only register to 10.0. I don't know, but I keep thinking that's too rich. At 11.0, I'm guessing that is too rich yet.
So do you know which way the AFR goes between fuel with ethanol and without? If I'm getting 11.0 with ethanol, would this same setup give me a leaner AFR without ethanol, or does it run richer?
Do you recalibrate for ethanol free fuel, or is there not enough of a difference between the two fuels to bother with it?
Thanks for your help.
Rick
-
My car with a Muncie and 3.36 gears and a ~26" tall tire runs down the highway at ~3100 rpm. I am right in that 15.2-15.5 AFR range. Crowding the throttle, it will swing to ~16.5:1 before power enrichment / secondary opening. WOT is ~12.5-13.0 range. Seems to get great MPG set-up this way, and there are no drivability issues. It is very responsive. At idle, the meter shows around 13.0, and light throttle in the < 15 to 40 mph range is 14.3-15.0.
That sounds like what mine is doing, except for the WOT AFR. My cruise AFR is almost identical to what you reported, so i think I've got the primary side set just about right. Going to the smaller rods and jets cut the WOT AFR with just the primary side to about 12.0 if I remember correctly. I might have to lock out the secondaries again and recheck it to be sure.
But do you think a good WOT AFR would be somewhere around 13.0, or is that too lean?
This ain't no hotrod, it's a 3/4 ton suburban with a 3.73 rear gear and a LT235/85R16 tire, gotta measure them again, but I think they're 28" tall.
My rpm at 75 is about 3200-3300 if memory serves. To verify that I have to either hope the local cops are having their morning coffee or drive 45 miles to get to the interstate, lol.
Maybe an AFR of 12.5 at WOT because of how heavy this thing is would be better, I honestly don't know.
I'd like to get it to where it gets decent mileage, I've got a LOT of scrap metal I need to haul to Tucson next summer, so it'd be nice if the scrap would cover the cost of the gas at least.
Thank you for replying.
Rick
-
Here's a couple of pictures of how I marked my idle mixture screws to keep them synched with each other. Not foolproof but every little bit helps when it's hard to see them hiding underneath the carb and all kinds of stuff in the way.
-
Maybe an AFR of 12.5 at WOT because of how heavy this thing is would be better, I honestly don't know.
Rick
IMO, anything from 12.0-13.0 would probably be fine at WOT. Mine hovers in the mid-12s, but will momentarily go lean to low-13s after shifts, etc. I haven't data-logged, so this is just trying to watch the gauge on an open road. 12.0 - 12.5 would probably be better as an average in case you have distribution issues that cause lean cylinders and you intend to run it WOT under heavy load. 11.0 sounds very rich to me, but probably won't hurt anything or cost much power.
-
As for E10 vs ethanol free.... this is not scientific, but I run E10 93 all summer long. I ran the tank low and put in ethanol free 90 octane in preparation for winter storage (like I do every year). On the highway, it seems to run 0.2-0.3 AFR richer with ethanol free, but weather conditions may have been different which could also affect results. I don't think E10 vs E0 makes enough difference to worry about when it comes to carb tuning.
-
IMO, anything from 12.0-13.0 would probably be fine at WOT. Mine hovers in the mid-12s, but will momentarily go lean to low-13s after shifts, etc. I haven't data-logged, so this is just trying to watch the gauge on an open road. 12.0 - 12.5 would probably be better as an average in case you have distribution issues that cause lean cylinders and you intend to run it WOT under heavy load. 11.0 sounds very rich to me, but probably won't hurt anything or cost much power.
I don't hit WOT for any length of time, just when passing or taking off to catch an opening in traffic. I just want to be sure it's in range for any WOT maneuvers I may have to make, I really don't want to fry this engine while doing it.
I looked at my logbook for this thing and empty it weighs just under 6000lbs, 5700 to be precise.
The last time I took a load of scrap to Tucson the total weight of everything was 15,000 pounds. With the TBI system it actually pulled it really well. Im hoping that it does even better with this Quadrajet, but I'm not even going to try it until I'm sure I've got it dialed in correctly.
-
As for E10 vs ethanol free.... this is not scientific, but I run E10 93 all summer long. I ran the tank low and put in ethanol free 90 octane in preparation for winter storage (like I do every year). On the highway, it seems to run 0.2-0.3 AFR richer with ethanol free, but weather conditions may have been different which could also affect results. I don't think E10 vs E0 makes enough difference to worry about when it comes to carb tuning.
That's good to know. Another thing is the altitude. Im at 4600 here, but Tucson is another 1400 feet lower. What elevation are you at?
-
At 4600 ft. wonder if that's why it was so rich when you put that carb on.
-
At 4600 ft. wonder if that's why it was so rich when you put that carb on.
That could be the case, the specs that Kenth or anyone else offers, I'm guessing, are always for sea level, and you adjust accordingly.
But does anyone know what ithe formula is for figuring out how to adjust for a given altitude?
I think you're right about why this one was so rich. Now I need to take another look at the 3 previous carbs to figure out why they were running lean. That's gonna be a job for another day though, I'm tired of pulling the carb off and on. I am pretty quick at it now, I can do it blindfolded now, lol.
Thank you for all your help, I definitely couldn't have done this without the support of you guys on here. I'd be lost for sure.
-
That's good to know. Another thing is the altitude. Im at 4600 here, but Tucson is another 1400 feet lower. What elevation are you at?
I am at ~700 ft
-
Around 92 a Uncle of mine passed away in ND, we went out to get a 84 Chevy truck 305 it was high altitude per the emission sticker. It's only about a 1000 ft. lower here, but truck didn't run very well, went up one jet size & it made all the difference.
-
I am at ~700 ft
Wow, that's a big difference, I wonder how mine would run at that altitude.
-
Around 92 a Uncle of mine passed away in ND, we went out to get a 84 Chevy truck 305 it was high altitude per the emission sticker. It's only about a 1000 ft. lower here, but truck didn't run very well, went up one jet size & it made all the difference.
Yeah, i was thinking that I should try one more combination to get the cruise and WOT areas and little smaller for that perfect AFR, ( a 69/40 I think was the next combo that gave me a slightly leaner area), but now I'm wondering if I should just leave it alone for now until I have another chance to run to Tucson and see how it'll run at that altitude.
I may have it set up so it'll work well for both but not perfect for either, if you know what I mean.
Is there a specific range of altitude that any given jet/rod combination is perfect for? By this I mean, is a jet/rod combo good for a range of 500ft, or 1000ft, then you would have to go to the next size up or down depending on which direction you're going?