Cliff's Quadrajet Parts and Rebuild Kits
Quadrajet Problem Solving => Diagnose a Quadrajet carburetor problem => Topic started by: chance on April 14, 2017, 10:52:02 AM
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Hello, just joined the forum. I just bought cliffs book on rebuilding and modifying q jets... lots of good info awesome read!! It didn't have any info on dual quad applications so I'll ask here. the carbs will be going on a mopar 383 with 10 to 1 compression flat top pistons with no valve reliefs 906 heads with steel shim head gaskets , offenhauser 3614 low risedual quad intake. Engine pulls between 7 and 8 inches of vacuum. I have several carbs to work with. Just wondering about idle and main jetting, and choke pull off time in this application.
Thanks guys!
God bless!!!
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Not enough information. Need to know the carburetor number(s), and camshaft specifications. One q-jet would be more than enough for that engine, but they work fine using two of them even though it doesn't need no where near that much cfm due to the design of the secondary system.
I've set up quite a few for dual quad applications. The best carbs to start with are Chevy side inlet units with the divorced choke set-up from 1969 to 1977. For sure it is best to find two with the same part number, but not a requirement.....Cliff
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Thanks Cliff. I'm currently building an 800 cfm single q jet based off of your book. it will sit on a single plane Mopar M1 intake that's on the car now with a 750 holley. I ran the dual quad manifold for a while with 2 450 holleys but the et's went down by 4 to 6 tenths so I went back to the single holley as I could never get a q jet to perform correctly with that cam. I have a bunch of q jets that the haters club has given to me over the years and I buy them at swap meets for little or nothing. I would like to try the dual q jets because a friend of mine has a Buick Riviera with a factory 425 with 2 q jets and its the best running dual quad set up I have ever driven, it works well on the street as well as the drag strip. Any ideas on main jets and rods and choke pull off for running 2 of them?
I love your book! Found out a lot I didn't know about q jets and I've been rebuilding and running them for years.
Take care and God Bless!!!
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I owned, drove and drag raced a 1970 Roadrunner for many years. Started out with a 383 and rebuilt it with the Mopar 284/484 cam. I tried several intakes on it over the years and it ran quickest in ET with a stock spread bore intake topped with an 800cfm q-jet.
I ran the factory square flange intake with an 850DP Holley and it was close in ET but less MPH due to the smaller plenum area.
I tried several single plane intakes on it and it really slowed the car down. I was running a 3000 stall converter and 4.56 gears in it. Probably needed more converter for the single plane intakes because it "felt" stronger at full throttle, but the time slips showed that it really slowed down in 60' times.
I ended up replacing the 383 with a 440 and it ran half a second quicker at the track with the same basic set-up.
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That's awesome! Almost identical situations, I have a 68 charger B body, same engine, 3500 stall 4:30 gears. The only reason I never went with a dual plane manifold is a buddy of mine had a 66 cornet with a 440, 484/284 purple shaft cam and the mopar M1 dual plane manifold 3000 stall converter 4:10 gears, and my car was always quicker than his. His 60' times were quicker, 1/8 mile was within couple hundredths, 1/4 mile I'd take him by 3 to 4 tenths. So the stock iron dual plane worked best for you? I don't think I have any of those any more...lol. Guess Ill try to round one up.
Thanks Cliff!
God Bless!!!
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Locate a stock intake for one of the later engines that had a spread bore design. They are superior to the square flange earlier versions.
The P-Parts catalogs even recommended them as part of a "package" for those engines.
What ET and MPH are you running with the 383 set-up now?.....Cliff
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I'm running 12.8 at 106 mph at 1700 feet above sea level on 26" tall tire. thinking of going to 27.5 tire?
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ET and MPH are good for the combination.
I ran mostly 1/8th mile with mine when I raced it, as we had a track about 10 miles from the house. It typically ran around 8.0 to 8.2 in the 1/8th mile depending on weather and track conditions.
The big 440 was much quicker, running 7.7 to 7.8 for most outings.
I didn't know nearly as much back then as I do now. My Ventura in full street trim with less gear runs low 7's at 95-96mph. So far best 1/8th mile ET has been 7.18 at just under 97mph. Most outings it runs 7.2-7.3 around 95-96mph. It could really use more gear and converter, but I like the 3.42 gears for the street and the converter is a very tight 10" unit that acts pretty much like a stock converter for "normal" driving........Cliff
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What's in the ventura? 400,455, destroked 301. I only mention the last one because a guy at our local track has one and that thing is nuts it turns over 8000 rpm. I'm building a 400 for my 77 TA. That leads my to my next question. the q jet I've been trying to make work on the charger before I got your book is a 7045333 XM. I haven't had a lot of luck with cracking that number, probably not going to the right web site. This carb is clean and kitted ( not one of your kits ) and very low miles. Anyway I also have another 77 TA carb 17057274 ARN I know these are a good carb to build but this one looks like it rolled around in the trunk for 25 years, nothing is broken mind you the vent is bent over and closed off and the plug for the mixture control broken but all the hard parts are not broken like the base plate or the air horn. My question is. Is it worth it to go through the TA carb or just do some of the mods to the other one like notching the secondary air doors ect.
Thanks!
Chance
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Not familiar with a 7045333?
I use a 17057274 on my engine. To date it has outran, dyno and at the track every carb we've tested against it, Demon, Holley, Edelbrock AFB and AVS. They are excellent carburetors and plenty for what you are doing. Mine is completely "stock" as far as the castings, never touched with a grinder or sanding roll. It is recalibrated with a few simple tuning mods from my book.
My current engine is a 428 with a 4.21 stroke crank for 455cid. It is topped with KRE heads and 236/245/112 HR cam.
Makes over 550hp/600tq, smooth idle, and strong/broad/flat power curve.
On 1/4 mile tracks I retard the timing 4 degrees, short shift at 5000rpm's, and add 200lbs weight to stay roll bar legal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zVdoLR-VzM
......Cliff
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Ok, thanks cliff. I'm still going to do the dual quads just because it looks cool for the street and I have all these carbs and manifold changes for a BB mopar are really quick. If I lose performance I'll just change them out when I want max performance.
Thanks for time and knowledge!
God Bless!!!
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Chance,
7045333 is a Champion Carburetor. So, a reman carb. I would look for a different carb. Like the one, Cliff, suggested.
God bless you!
Ethan
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Oh ok, thanks for letting me know! I wasn't having much luck cracking that number. So do they change the numbers on the reman carbs is that why it's hard to find? I'm going to use the TA carb like cliff suggested . It's pretty beat up so I'll take it all apart and look it over closer to make sure it's usable.
Thanks Ethan!
God bless you too!!!
P.S. I have a son named Ethan
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Oh ok, thanks for letting me know! I wasn't having much luck cracking that number. So do they change the numbers on the reman carbs is that why it's hard to find? I'm going to use the TA carb like cliff suggested . It's pretty beat up so I'll take it all apart and look it over closer to make sure it's usable.
Thanks Ethan!
God bless you too!!!
P.S. I have a son named Ethan
Yeah, they did change the numbers, Chance. If I remember correctly, the part number for that carb is also 4-488. If you need parts on the TA carb, I am sure, Cliff, may be able to help. And you are very welcome, Chance!
God bless you too! And God bless your son, Ethan, too!
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Cliff. I finally, got to watch the video you sent with the ventura. That thing doesn't sound like a 550 HP car.... but it sure runs like one. That's quite a combo! What's the compression ratio one that engine? Do you have to run catalytic converters where you live on that car? I don't have to in the small town I live in....but I know the cats defuse the thump of a high compression engine. That's a wolf in sheep's clothing right there. It's all business when you hit pedal on the right. I might be hitting you up for more info on that later for the TA engine. I do kinda the same thing with the Charger it doesn't look like much it's got primer and old faded paint, but it sure is fun leaving a guy at the stop light with a $50.000 car.....LOL
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The engine is 11 to 1 compression, cam is on a wide LSA so it idles pretty smooth and has a very broad/flat power curve. Flat out in full street trim it runs nearly into the 10's so we take steps to run slower on 1/4 mile tracks as mentioned above.
I also have a full/quiet exhaust system, with an "H" pipe to help mellow out the sound and reduce resonance as well.
The most fun we have is when folks come over to check out the combo after we make a quick pass with it. The look on their face when they see the stock intake and q-jet is priceless!.....Cliff
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yeah, I'll bet...LOL I'll be getting a hold of you in the next few weeks to get a kit and some other parts for the TA carb. Can't do too much in my shop yet got cars stored in the for the winter and I still have some snow on the ground....I'll be in touch.
Thanks again for your time!
God Bless!!
Chance
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Snow on the ground......where are you located?
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North east Washington state about 20 miles from the Canadian border. I live on top of a mountain overlooking a lake It's amazing. The down side is sometimes we get a lot of snow and this last winter we got our fare share....LOL Not really a down side as I have snowmobiles to play in the snow. Do you like to fish? My Local track is in Spokane Wa, about 100 mile from my house. Needless to say we get our fare share of street racing from our little town and surrounding towns.
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I love to fish and go to Florida every October to do some surf fishing while my family enjoys the beach. Last year was the first year we didn't make it down in the last 15 years.
We didn't get any measurable snow here this year aside from one or two very light "dustings". Very odd as we typically get a pretty decent amount of snow and a lot of snow storms came thru the area but every time went just North or South of us.
I love traveling out West to the Rockies and making a trip out there here in a few weeks......Cliff
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I always wanted to try surf fishing....That's where you use a really long pole and a lot of weight sling it out as far as possible right? I do mostly fly fishing in our little mud puddle. I want to do some ocean fishing...maybe when i retire...LOL We got a lot of snow this year, so much that it's causing flooding issues all over the state. Roads washing out ect... Our neighbors to the south in California are no longer in a drought for the first time in 20 years. Our daughter lives in San Diego and said they can water their grass and not get a fine....LOL You and your family have a safe trip... Hopefully you will around when I call to get my parts, I'd like to talk to you in person.
Take care and God Bless!!
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Surf fishing is becoming a lost art from what I've seen.
We do very well when we go, but you have to go when the bait fish (finger Mullet) are running to do the best. In Florida this will be in early October most years.
We catch Spanish Mackerel, Bluefish, Catfish, Red Drum, sharks, and on occasion a King Mackerel will come in close enough to hook one up.
You just never know what you are going to get into, and sometimes they are so big that they will spool off all your line and you can't stop em!......Cliff
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Hi Cliff, did you make it to the Rockies? I'm going to be getting a hold of you this week to get some kits. I've got three projects to build for. The carb numbers I dug out boxes of carbs are as follows. For the Charger that we were talking about I've got that TA carb 17057274. I'm going to build one for my shelby cobra replica, I bought the car a couple years ago and don't know anything about the engine build. it's a 302 with an Edelbrock rpm intake and the long tube headers. It has a smooth idle sounds like a mild rv cam, Im guessing 275 to 300HP. It's a little hard to tell in such a light car, I'm sure recipe #1 from your book will be adequate for its needs. I have a 17059213 and a 17058213. I was thinking one of those for it. The dual quads for the charger I have some older carbs set out, 7045214,7042244,7041202 and a carter qjet 703202. Or should I go with the two 1705 carbs and build one of the older one for the ford.
Please let me know when the best time to call is in your time zone and I'll do the math.....LOL
Looking forward to talking to you my friend!
God Bless!!
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Our trip to Colorado went well. Heading back out there in October for an Elk hunting trip. Going to be "roughing" it a bit, and there is no cell phone coverage within 50 miles of where we will be hunting.....which is a good thing!....
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Hello Cliff, it great talking to you a few weeks ago when I ordered my kits from you. got the carb done for the charger. it works awesome! Hoping I can get to the track before it closes for the winter. The bottom end power increase is so much better that I'm going to have to run a stickier tire, first gear is useless...lol I also found a short block 400 for my Trans am. It's fleshly rebuilt, but has been sitting in a shed for 20 years. needless to say it has to come apart....lol I'm going to pick it up this weekend. It's a 67 400 casting bored 30 over with flat top pistons with valve reliefs. that's all I know until I get it apart. I'm going to get that pontiac book you told me about, can I get that from you or should i jump on ebay and get one? You told me to get a hold of you when I found one...so here I am...lol Anyway I want to build a low to mid 400HP engine that will behave pretty well on the street and still leave most of the ricers behind...lol. the heads I have are the 4X 7H castings. these are 98cc heads, they're at 93cc right now. I don't know how far I can cut these heads down to get the compression up?? I'm going to drill and tap them for screw in studs. you said that you have played around a lot with cams for these engines, what do you recommend? I almost feel bad putting a 67 block in a 77 TA....lol Some guy out there with a 67 firebird would be pissed. Anyway and guidance woul be greatly appreciated...
Take Care my friend
God Bless!!
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What are you goals for power production?
Difficult to get a decent compression ratio with those heads.
If the engine was built with the 8 valve relief cast pistons they will reduce the compression at least another half a point, so they have to be replaced as well......Cliff
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I thought I might have to go with different heads, a friend of mine has a set of 65 389 heads but the valves are smaller? I want a low to mid 400 hp engine that I can drive on the street and some weekend drag racing, the car has 3:42 diff in it. I"m picking the engine up tomorrow so I'll be able to look it over more closely and see what's there and what the quality of the parts are.
I'll keep you posted, I'm going to try to build it this winter and install it in the spring so I have some time to look for what I need
Thanks!
God Bless!!!
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I wouldn't use heads earlier than 1967, they made big changes in 1967 and all for the better. The early heads also mess things up for using a decent piston as well, and why the "generic" cast replacement pistons have 8 valve reliefs instead of 4.
The 8 valve relief pistons are garbage. Not only do they reduce compression, most are .030-.050" below the deck at TDC. Pontiac engines THRIVE on very tight quench and will run hot/overheat/detonate if you build them with too much quench area.
They also use cast iron connecting rods which are a disaster waiting to happen.
I'd put a good set of 4340 "H" beam rods and Icon or equivalent forged full floating pistons on my wish list for that engine. The better pistons also come with a revised ring pack and are much lighter than factory replacement type forged pistons......Cliff
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Yeah the engine I took out of the TA had those 8 valve relief pistons in it, the 67 block I'm getting today only has the 4, I haven't had a chance to look at the rods closely but I'm assuming they're 67 units. I'll no more tomorrow.
Thanks bud!!
God Bless!!
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Well Cliff, you gotta love a friend of a friend story....LOL When I went to look at this 400 it was on a pallet with another engine stacked on top in a shed. I could see it had new pistons and the guy was a friend of my friend. so I said I'll take it, so he delivered it to my friend as he was going to Florida for 2 weeks. Long story short.... It's not a 400, it's a 68 350. so my Question to you is can I use the 350 and the parts of the 400 that I have to build a stroker motor, are the cranks the same can I put it in my 400 block, since I'm going to have to buy pistons anyway bore one of them to 455??? I haven't paid for the engine yet and I know he will take it back. Like I told you on the phone this is my first Pontiac build and I don't know them like I do the mopars and chevys What are your thoughts? I ordered the max performance Pontiac book that we talked about on the phone it should be here in a few days.
Take care my friend!!
God Bless!!
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I build scores of Pontiac engines here and drag race/sponser half a dozen of them out of our shop.
To date I've never touched a 326 or 350 for "high performance" use. The bore is simply too small, and they are long stroke with heavy rods. Cranks are basically the same parameters as a 400 but it makes little sense to start throwing money into a 350 build and piston choices are very limited for them, so you immediately have to buy expensive aftermarket custom made units.
Going that direction it just makes more sense to come up with a LOT more CID from a 400 block, and you can use the big 2.11/1.77 valves without clearance issues with high lift camshafts smacking the block.
I'm not saying a 350 Pontiac is a "door stop", but it takes as much as or more money to build one up and you get LESS of everything at the end of the journey, so why not put the funds into a 400 block right to start with?.......Cliff
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Ok, so if I understand you correctly the 350 crank is the same as the 400? I have a 400 block but the crank is wasted. Rods are good pistons are garbage 8 valve relief units. So I can use the 350 crank, 400 rods, buy some dome pistons to get the compression up for the 4x heads you give me a cam grind that you think best and we're good to go right? Or am I still on the short bus...lol
Thanks bud!
God bless!!!
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The cranks are only the same for dimensions, they 350 would have used lighter pistons so unlikely it's balanced the same as a 400 crank. Not a big deal if you are getting the spinning assembly balanced but something to keep in mind when using a 350 crank in a 400 build.......
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Ok, Thanks! How far can you turn one of those cast cranks safely? If my 400 crank was forged I turn it and use it. I've turned my Mopar cranks as much as .050 on the mains and turned them 6500 rpm and never had a problem. Like I said before I don't know Pontiac's.....Yet....LOL. You're going to fix that right??
Thanks again for your time my friend.
Take care!!
God Bless!!!
P. S. How are those grand kids doing?
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The early "N" cranks are tough as nails and you can turn them clear down to BBC or even SBC journal sizes if needed.
I avoid the later "PMI" cranks as they are just not that tough and have seen enough issues with them to avoid them altogether, same with the 1975 and later 400 blocks unless it was a T/A 4 speed.....Cliff
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The 400 block I have is a 71, the car originally came with a 301. the guy i got the car from didn't know anything about the car or engines so someone put it in there before he got it. So is there an N cast into the crank I should be looking for or a special number to Identify the crank?
Thanks!
Take care!!
God Bless!!!
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Most of the nodular cranks I've seen have a huge "N" cast into them. It can also be identified by researching the casting number on it.....Cliff
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Hello my friend. Hope all is well with you and yours. Since our last talk I've identified the crank i pulled out of the 400 and it's a 350 crank. maybe that's why it tore itself apart in such a short time??? Anyway I picked up a set of 061 big valve heads with 72cc CC , which are better than the 4x units i have. So I should't have to go with dome pistons after all. flat tops should be adequate. Should I get a 400 crank vs turning the 350 crank? cost wise it seem to be with in 100 bucks of just replacing it.
Thanks for your time!!
Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!
God Bless!!!
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The crankshafts are the same dimensions, just different balance. Replacing it would depend on if it needs heavy metal added to work with a 400 spinning assembly.
CC the 061 heads they may have small enough chambers you don't need a domed piston in it. I do NOT like or used domed pistons in Pontiac engines, they work much better with flat top pistons due to the flat chamber floors, machined chambers, and 30 degree intake seats.....Cliff
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OK thank you! The 350 crank is grooved pretty deep so I'll be making even lighter than it already is. sounds like I better get another crank. Thanks for the info....as always your the man...LOL
Take care!
God Bless!!