87 Cutlass Salon

[bober]

Having trouble with start up after car sets for a couple days or more . Choke is closed when trying to start but the engine has to be cranked for quite a bit and pump accelerator a few times to start . Is there a in-line check valve that can be installed possibly ? Starts pretty good if started every day ! It doesn't seem to have a gas smell after it's shut off . Thanks

[Kenth]

Todays "improved" fuels evoparates out of the carb faster than with yesteryears fuel and it will take some time, usually 5-15 seconds if the fuel filter in tank and carb are clean, for the fuel pump to fill the carb again.
Pumping the pedal will do nothing with an empty carb except wearing out the accpump.
No check valve will change that.
The remedy is usage of an electric fuel pump, instead of the mech. pump, with which you can prefill the carb before starting attempts.

[bober]

Is it at all possible to add the electric pump and still use the mechanical ? What would be the most reliable pump and have the correct psi ? Thanks much !!!

[Cliff Ruggles]

The fuel should return to and fill the carb quickly, but it is common for this new fuel to evaporate and leave the fuel bowl low or empty after a few days.

Even so it should NOT take a long time to re-fill the carburetor even without an electric pump.  In vented fuel systems with mechanical pumps it is important to make sure that all connections before the pump are tight and any rubber hose being used is in good shape. 

The carburetor should be using a solid fuel inlet seat (not windowed).  This helps prevent drain back out of the carburetor.  Every single one of those I get involved with has the wrong N/S assembly in it which doesn't help.  I also see a lot of them with those crappy blue pump seals that have been sold for nearly 20 years now.  It is imperative that the accl pump seal be working correctly so you are putting a strong shot of fuel into the engine when fuel is in or returns to the float bowl.

I've helped countless folks out with similar issues by just selling them much better (and the correct) parts for their carburetor vs using the "generic" low quality components that have been showing up in rebuild kits for quite a few years now........Cliff

[bober]

We used the acc/pump and a gasket from your kit when we replaced the TPS. last fall while we had the top off. I do have to figure out how to set the fast idle when I get to setting some of the things we didn't get done last fall . I'm familiar with setting that on most but all of the working parts are just that much harder to see on this one ! We weren't seeing any dirt or anything in the bowl area while doing that . Thanks for the help !

[old cars]

"those crappy blue pump seals " I don't know what kind of gas you guys are running down there but those blue pump seals seem to work fine with our gas. In fact we still see guys running the old black buna rubber ones and getting away with it.

[Cliff Ruggles]

This is what I see on a daily basis here and why I have seals made that are not effected by this new fuel and come with a lifetime warranty.

[old cars]

Let me clarify. I don't believe your seals are any better. The "crappy blue seals " do an excellent job. Nice pictures though. Especially the ripped one.

[Cliff Ruggles]

They are a LOT better than what shows up on the pumps available from the main suppliers.

The "blue" seals they are using are "soft" and swell up in modern fuels.  I test them periodically and all of them will swell up if you put them in fuel and let them sit for a few days.

So I remove them from the pumps we buy and install my seals and have had ZERO issues with them.

I get carburetors in here all the time just rebuilt with NAPA and other over the counter kits with failed blue seals on them, some have failed in just a day or so.  The seals will do one of three things, swell up and stick in the bore, swell up and fall off the pump and get wound up in the return spring, or tear.

Had a local customer come in here late last Fall and hand delivery 2 Marine carbs he rebuilt himself with NAPA kits.  They didn't last a week and lost pump shot.  One seal tore, the other was stuck so hard in the bore I pulled the pump into two parts prying it out of the casting.  I did this right in front of him as he contracted with me to repair them on a Saturday. 

IF you really think those POS soft blue seals are up to par I have thousands of them, how many do you want?

I took the pic below one day in the shop when I was swapping out the seals.  You can see the color difference as the "soft" seals are in the front row on the left.  They aren't worth two squirts of duck poop, and if anyone wants some of them just let me know......