Author Topic: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]  (Read 7303 times)

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2017, 02:39:33 PM »
They made those carburetors with and without the limit or rich stop.  If it's up against the IAB's valve and pushing it to the deepest position you still should be able to use the adjustment it the airhorn keep the idle from being unstable.

Do you have full control with the idle bleed adjustment in the airhorn?.....Cliff

Offline turboguard

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2017, 06:09:28 PM »
They made those carburetors with and without the limit or rich stop.  If it's up against the IAB's valve and pushing it to the deepest position you still should be able to use the adjustment it the airhorn keep the idle from being unstable.

Do you have full control with the idle bleed adjustment in the airhorn?.....Cliff

So after I drove home (~30 min) today I hopped out and immediately hooked up my dwell meter...with the IAB valve screwed all the way in to about 1 turn out, it idles the highest and smoothest (but still stumbles and backfires slightly), but the dwell is pegged at 54°.  Once I start backing it out, the idle drops slightly and starts stumbling and the dwell goes down into the 40's and slowly decreases as I unscrew it.  I can unscrew it to the point where I hear the piston stop hitting the IAB valve's rod and actually tick on the airhorn itself and the dwell is in the 30's.  I have the idle mixture screws at about 3 1/2 turns out during this, and the lean stop screw set approx. 1.304 inches according to the guide.

I'm kind of at a loss as to how to get it running perfectly without scrapping the whole thing honestly, lol.

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2017, 03:28:13 AM »
3.5 turns out from seated is pretty lean with one of those carbs as the mixture screws have metric threads.   Most end up 5-6 turns out from seated to get enough fuel to them to idle well.

I would install the correct airhorn if doing it here as I like having the limit for the metering rods so we can fine tune them to run well if the M/C solenoid quits working.   We probably have a dozen of them in the core pile.....Cliff

Offline turboguard

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2017, 10:38:58 AM »
3.5 turns out from seated is pretty lean with one of those carbs as the mixture screws have metric threads.   Most end up 5-6 turns out from seated to get enough fuel to them to idle well.

I would install the correct airhorn if doing it here as I like having the limit for the metering rods so we can fine tune them to run well if the M/C solenoid quits working.   We probably have a dozen of them in the core pile.....Cliff

How much would you charge for a good airhorn?  I think my best bet is getting the appropriate airhorn so I can better tweak the settings, plus my airhorn is slightly warped anyway so that's probably causing some issues too (although I am using the thicker gasket you sent which is probably helping a lot).

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2017, 11:04:09 AM »
We sell those for $15 plus shipping.  We're here 8am-4pm, M-F EST...tks....Cliff

Offline turboguard

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2017, 07:49:54 PM »
Thanks for the awesome airhorn! it even had all the plugs and rivets still in!  Gonna clean it up real good and install it tomorrow and see how much better my car will run with the proper adjustments!  ;D

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2017, 04:53:43 AM »
You are most welcome.  I ended up taking one from a complete core as I wasn't happy with the ones in the core pile.  We've been robbing parts from them for many years so couldn't find one with everything on it and unmolested......Cliff

Offline turboguard

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2017, 07:54:02 AM »
So...this will be my third teardown and rebuild of it, and after getting the correct airhorn on, it runs even better than before.  Takes off like a bat out of hell and screams at full throttle!  But of course...still running into idle problems (of a different sort this time).

This time I actually removed my old idle pickup tubes and carefully installed the new ones I received with my HP kit, making sure all passages were free and clear.  My primary throttle shafts were already bushed, so along with bushing my secondaries, both shafts are freely rotating.  There is a very slight amount of left-right play on the primaries when they are open, but they close snuggly and I tried my best to center them in front of a light.  The only other thing I did regarding the throttle shafts was the fast idle cam piece (the one that is spring loaded onto the adjustment screw) was having some clearance issues with the throttle plates closed, causing it to stick, so I filed a bit of metal off of the piece so it would move more freely and let the throttle plates close fully without any hangups.

I actually got a hold of the Quadrajet Thexton tools and meticulously set everything to the proper stock settings using the tools (float, lean and rich stops, IAB, TPS).  I set the idle mixtures screws to 3-3/8 turns out as per the instructions that came with the kit, tools, and my service manual.  After warming up, I connected my dwell meter and found at stock settings the dwell was in the single digits, so per my manual I turned the IAB valve in until the dwell was fluctuating around 30 degrees, which did take several turns to get to, but never bottomed out. (Remember before with my old airhorn this was impossible, dwell was pegged at 54 no matter what!).  Idle stop solenoid is set fairly low and engaging properly only when it should, so its not holding the throttle up.  PCV is hooked up and functioning correctly.  All vac ports hosed or properly capped.  Still using the thicker airhorn gasket.

Now the main problem with the idle is that it is too high!  Fully warmed up, choke properly open and fast idle disengaged, I get 1000-1100 in park and about 750 in drive.  The throttle plates are fully closing, and the linkage is all the way against the idle adjustment screw (which is just barely sticking out of the hole as it is, where as before I actually had to turn it in to get the idle high enough to be smooth).

Some other symptoms:  The dwell varied about 10 degrees with my air cleaner on and off ( I have the 14" edelbrock open air element with a wix filter).  When I rev the motor in park, the rpms seems to be slow to drop back down to idle (the rpms drop to about 1500 and then slowly go back down from there, where as before it was almost an instant drop after releasing the pedal).  Still getting what seems to be a slight backfire and idle and low part throttle.  Sometimes get dieseling after shut off, which is expected I guess when the idle is too high?

Any suggestions on what's going on this time?  Too rich?  Too lean?  I know a vacuum leak could be suspect, so I'm actually gonna go buy a propane bottle today and see what I find around the carb and intake manifold.  Aside from that, any clues what I need to be looking for?

Offline turboguard

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2017, 12:31:40 PM »
Forgot to mention my timing is set at 8 degrees with ECM disconnected, I haven't messed with it yet because I had a hard time even getting to the nut to loosen the distributor, lol.

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2017, 02:43:21 AM »
Can't say as I've ever had to remove any material from the part on the throttle shaft that contacts the fast idle cam if the correct parts were being used.  Having to do that raises a "flag" here.....Cliff

Offline turboguard

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2017, 07:17:23 AM »
Can't say as I've ever had to remove any material from the part on the throttle shaft that contacts the fast idle cam if the correct parts were being used.  Having to do that raises a "flag" here.....Cliff

It was the little free floating piece where the bottom touches the adjustment screw and the top rests against the fast idle steps...near the center of if there are two little spots on each side of the hole that stick out against the outer piece that holds the adjustment screw.  Clearance was fine if the throttle shaft was held open slightly, but when rotated to fully seated the little metal tabs would get held up and cause the shaft to stick, so I just shaved the tabs down a little to where they wouldn't stick when the shaft was fully rotated closed.

I'm starting to think I may have a major intake manifold leak...I'll find out tonight when I probe with some propane!

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: Warm idle fluctuation with slight backfire [VIDEO]
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2017, 02:30:50 AM »
Provided that the throttle plates are well seated in their bores at idle speed with the adjustment screw backed off and you are still seeing high idle speed, there has to be air getting to the intake from another source.

This assumes that you don't have HUGE idle bypass air holes or holes drilled in any of the throttle plates......Cliff