Author Topic: idle circuit  (Read 2399 times)

Offline richie49

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idle circuit
« on: May 31, 2019, 02:56:49 PM »
  I have been listening to a argument  about the idle quality. This seems to be a easy question but have had so many opinions.The question is  When the engine is idling is the carb pulling fuel from the front jets because the power spring is too strong to let the piston go down in the jets.not running up the gears but at idle.  throttle plates are closed no drips from boosters. Or is the engine running on idle fuel only? and  thru the tubes, restrictions idle air bleeds and so on?
  Richard richie49

Offline Frank400

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Re: idle circuit
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2019, 04:50:11 PM »
The path is this: from the bowl, thru the front primary jets (which are partially restricted by the fully down metering rod), up thru the idle tube, picks up some air at the upper idle air bleed, then down thru the idle down channel restiction, then picks up some more air at the lower idle air bleed, then thru the idle feed hole in the baseplate (which is partially restricted by the idle mixture screw).

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: idle circuit
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2019, 05:33:18 AM »
Correct, ALL the idle fuel has to pass thru the main jets first.

Some idle fuel is also supplied by the exposed portion of the transfer slots in addition to coming thru the idle mixture screw holes.

This is why you may not be able to stall out the engine seating the idle mixture screws with some set-ups.  You should however be able to lean it up and slow it down some, if the idle system is correctly set up for what you are doing........Cliff

Offline richie49

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Re: idle circuit
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2019, 07:44:46 AM »
Okay,
     So the fuel does go thru the jets and then thru the idle circuit.Now the question is ,Does the fuel from needles down in the jets and the fuel from the needles up with  a wrong spring change up the  idle fuel  so the idle is messed up or is the fuel still regulated by the idle circuit and the spring makes no difference at idle?
     Richard richie49

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: idle circuit
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2019, 04:57:44 AM »
The idle fuel is controlled by how the idle system is set-up.  In theory it really wouldn't matter if the power piston was up or down as the starting point for the idle fuel is at the tiny hole in the bottom of the idle tubes at the bottom of the carburetor.

On very early units the upper idle bleeds were tiny and there to break the siphon effect as the fuel bowl would drain empty after shut-down. 

Tiny bleeds didn't require very big idle tubes either.  As emission standards tightened we started to see the factory come in with much larger idle bleeds to add more air to the fuel that made it to the idle mixture screws and transfer slots.

As they continued to increase air supply to the idle system most Q-jets were no longer able to function well when the user installed them on engines that made poor vacuum at idle speed. 

This very quickly gave the Q-jet a bad reputation as a "high performance" carburetor even though the rest of the design is excellent for high performance work.

Between the HOPELESS 1965-66 (and some 67 models) plunger type bypass fuel valves, the early poorly designed hinge pin float arrangement, and leaning them up for emissions, Q-jet got an early bad reputation for high performance work.

Some specific models had a good reputation for high performance, the Chevy 7029207's for example were, and still are sought after by folks who race in Stock and Super Stock Classes.  In reality the 207's are no different anyplace compared to the "grocery getter" and truck carbs from the same period, they just had really good idle calibrations and work well with "hefty" camshafts and lower vacuum at idle speed.

Not really trying to put a history lesson up here, but in reality the 1976 and later APT models are far superior to any of the early and highly coveted "high performance" factory Q-jets.  They have an excellent float/hinge pin set-up, APT, convert to electric choke, and most are bigger CFM.

Edelbrock even patterned their "famous" 1910 850 cfm units from 1980-81 Chevy truck carburetors.  They gave them a little more idle fuel, .149" fuel inlet seat, Marine length accl pump, larger primary jets, increased the open angle of the secondary airflaps, and added a couple of holes and "goofy" notches/bent tabs to the flaps.

They called them "850" cfm models and they were and are very popular to this day.  As good as the 1910's are, they are identical to most 1979-86 truck SMAB Q-jets just have a few simple mods made to them.......Cliff