Author Topic: 17080213  (Read 1692 times)

Offline mcx

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17080213
« on: March 14, 2023, 02:37:59 PM »
Picked up this clean core….This carb has the typical vacuum tube on the front/drivers side for a ported feed hook up, but the baseplate connection has a horizontal slit way located below the closed throttle plates?  What would this have been used to control?

Offline Kenth

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2023, 02:02:18 AM »
Ignition vacuum advance.

Offline mcx

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2023, 05:17:14 AM »
Kenth…would this be a full time vacuum source for advance, correct? or could it be ported being that low below  the throttle blades? It does have large idle bypass holes in the baseplate, I suppose the throttle blades might be full close to fully closed?
Thanks for the reply.

Offline Kenth

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2023, 10:06:00 AM »
Yes, some engines uses full manifold vacuum for the vacuum advance. I have found one to one and half turn on the idle speed screw locates the throttle blades in a correct position to the off-idle slots.

Offline mcx

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2023, 12:26:23 PM »
Thanks …I’ll just block the (full time)lower passage and drill a ported passage above the throttle blade.

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2023, 03:32:25 AM »
That will work just be aware that the source location has to be dead nuts on the money to work like it's supposed to.

Obtain a baseplate that is drilled for ported vacuum advance and make sure the hole that you drill is the exact same distance above the throttle plates.  The ideal location would be for the lower edge of the hole to be right in line with the leading edge of the throttle plate but not exposed to engine vacuum at idle. 

When done correctly the slightest movement of the throttle will provide FULL manifold vacuum to the port leading to the distributor.  It needs to be that way so the VA works exactly like a manifold vacuum source when driving the vehicle but no vacuum to the VA coasting and at idle speed.

I'd add that the factory used a "slot" (except for very early carbs) to make sure the VA worked like it was supposed to.  Here I drill a very small hole in the right location then "work" the bit back and forth to make a slot instead of a round hole......

Offline novadude

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2023, 08:31:38 AM »
One potential "gotcha" when looking at "ported" sources on these carbs....

Sometimes there is a ported EGR source that is located a bit higher above the blades than the early carb ported ignition source.  Often these also have "bleed holes" as well.  This EGR source is not ideal for vac advance.  As cliff said, you want the port exposed as soon as the throttle moves off idle (like the early carbs).

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2023, 06:12:51 AM »
Correct, a high source location will NOT work for a distributor VA nor will a correctly located source with a bleed-off slot next to it.

Most Q-jets made in the EGR years will have one or the other.  The ones using a bleed off slot are easy to convert to full ported vacuum for the distributor by simply filling the slot with Marine Tex or the entire area behind it but keep the slot open to engine vacuum and to the lower left vacuum fitting on the baseplate. 

When I custom tune here in a lot of scenarios I prefer a CORRECTLY located ported vacuum source to the VA vs full manifold vacuum. 

There is a LOT of miss-information out there on the subject of VA, like ported was only done for emission reasons, and that MVA makes you engine run cooler, or you absolutely MUST use MVA or you are an idiot, etc, etc.

What I've found here is that following much of the miss-information on the NET folks try to use MVA and run the timing clear off the scale as a "crutch" fix for WAY too much camshaft for their application, LSA way too right, and more times than not insufficient idle fuel to the mixture screws at the relative "low" vacuum their engine build is producing.

IF you find your mixture screws unresponsive or very little control and you need to advance the timing clear off the scale to make your engine happy at idle speed simply "tip-in" the choke flap or gently place your hand over the front of the carb.  IF the engine speed increases idle is smooth you need to fix that issue BEFOE trying to run 20, 30 or even more timing at idle to correct your issues.

Once the carb is up to par you will find that the engine may not want, like, need or respond well to a butt-load of timing at idle. 

Of course none of this is going to apply to engine where very poor choices have been made for compression and cam selection.  For most well though out engine builds you will find initial timing around 8-14 degrees will work just fine and provide a smooth steady idle in and out of gear with very little RPM drop, and easy cranking on hot restarts........

Offline mcx

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2023, 04:19:53 AM »
Thanks to all…I rechecked and no “bleed-off” EGR holes on this…I’ll carefully measure where the ported hole should be located and drill it…and fill the lower stock hole to discard.

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2023, 05:22:50 PM »
I do a lot of them here and made a very small fine point punch to punch a tiny spot to start the bit.  If not the bit is going to slide down some as you have to drill at a slight angle.....

Offline Eddie O

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2023, 10:18:30 AM »
Hello, new to the site and getting ready to rebuild a 17058213 on a 78 Chevy C10 "Big 10". Truck hasn't been used in a while and I bought it at an estate sale. One owner w/71K miles. Had to replace the fuel pump to get it running and then drove it about 8 miles home. Idles great, but sputters and try's to die when I give it gas. Anyway, I'm looking to get a rebuild kit from Cliff and wondering if there is anything special I need for this carb since it is a Big 10 and without your normal emissions requirements. Also, any recommendations on how to improve performance on the stock 350 engine with automatic transmission. I have no intentions of rebuilding the engine or modifying for performance anytime soon. I just want it to run right. I haven't rebuilt a Quadrajet or any other 4 barrel in about 40 years. Any help or recommendation will be appreciated along with should I just get a standard kit to rebuild or the SR?

Offline quadrajam

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2023, 05:04:28 PM »
Nice find.
I would say a carb rebuild, tuneup, maybe a dual exhaust setup would
be about it for a relatively inexpensive improvement. You can keep the
stock manifolds for now.

Cliff has some high quality parts and going for the best kit will include
parts that cover all the common problems. And get the book too. It will
enlighten you on lots of things we didn't know 40 years ago.

Make sure your timing advance both vacuum and centrifugal are correct.
Invest in a timing tape and pointer for your balancer.
Choke pull-off also needs to work correctly.

That's all that comes to mind now,Lots of knowledgeable cats on this forum
to help you out.
Good luck

 

Offline Cliff Ruggles

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Re: 17080213
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2023, 04:10:10 AM »
That is an excellent carburetor and doesn't need any help anyplace to work fine on the stock engine.  At most I would tap the access hole to the APT so you can make fine tuning adjustments with the APT once placed in service.  I can supply that part with a rebuild kit......