Cliff's Quadrajet Parts and Rebuild Kits
General Category => Quadrajet Carb Talk and Tips => Topic started by: PMD1969 on February 25, 2013, 07:17:58 PM
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I have a 68' Quad coming in the mail that will need a good cleaning and then a rebuild. I also have a OE carb that I will want to do the same too after this one is completed.
What is the best (cheapest) cleaning solution and method? I have heard of MANY liquid cleaners to use from Pinsol, Thinner, Berry's and on and on.
Which one of these would be the most economical, safe for the carb and parts and will clean the internals and external?
Thanks
Marc
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I like to soak the carb in some diesel fuel first. Warmer would be better but I don't know how safe it would be to try and warm up some diesel. Usually, the soak in the diesel would be a preliminary soak, then hit it with some high pressure water. Then, if you have a large crock pot or an electric roasting pan (they sell them at walmart) you could fill that with a mixture of water and Gunk-purple cleaner with the heat turned on but not too hot, maybe 175 degrees. you could mix in a bit of dawn dish soap with it also to help with the last of the grease buildup. Next would be the soak in the "carb cleaner bucket" like berrymans or gunk brand. Problem is the carb cleaner bucket cleaners are not what they used to be. Actually, the cans of spray carb cleaner work fairly good if the carb is not too dirty. You got too be careful with anything with strong acids as they will entirely remove any of the plating eventually. A bottle of "the works" toilet bowl cleaner mixed into some water in a bucket, barely covering the carb, will eat every single bit of rust, grease and carbon buildup BUT it will eat the plating right off til the carb is just a plain grey color.(probably would eat right through the carb if left in there long enough) Also the fumes are just killer, use caution and do this one outside IF you want to try this. Just horrible fumes that just have to be bad for you.
Of course, you could send the various carb parts (main, top casting etc) to either a plater or to someone like Cliff that would put the parts into an ultrasonic cleaner, that is probably the bbest method. I haven't tried the pine-sol yet but from what I have seen on the net, it looks like that method might have some good results.
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If you have access to an ultrasonic cleaner, that would be the best route. If not, the things omaha listed would be your next best bet. The big tub of Berryman's is good to use as well. May try a search on here for the right part number. There is another Berryman's out there that doesn't work as well.
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Post number 33:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143437&highlight=Berryman&page=2
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Post number 33:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143437&highlight=Berryman&page=2
Excellent thread. The Berryman links are dead BUT I do know that there are two different kinds. For cost reasons I am going to try Pinesol first. I really want to find a Ultra cleaner since they can clean the interior of a carb better than letting it sit still in cleaner.
I have seen some Ultra's that cost $300 which is waaayy too high. All I need is one that is just big enough to fit the parts of a Quadrajet into.
Do you have any idea if there is a cheap model that will work?
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a low priced ultrasonic cleaner probably wont do a good job. I bought one (A Kendal machine) that is big enough to fit my carbs/parts but it doesn't seem to have enough power. I paid roughly $400 for it, and I am disappointed. It is heated and I just use water and a bit of dish soap. Does not seem to work hardly at all. Cleans jewelry just fine though. I wish there were a way to give it some more power. I may try some other solvents in the tank to see if it helps but I am not going to get my hopes up. A powerful ultrasonic cleaner would probably cost at least $1500 I'll bet. However, I am going to keep on with the experiments with my machine and various additives in the water. I know if you look at some ultrasonic websites, the sell specific solvents to add to the water that are supposed to be just for carb cleaning. Good luck!!
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Do you know what the power rating is? I am looking at one that is 48hz and the tank is just big enough to take Qjet parts.
Anyone know what power rating is needed to clean these carbs?
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Do you know what the power rating is? I am looking at one that is 48hz and the tank is just big enough to take Qjet parts.
Anyone know what power rating is needed to clean these carbs?
Cliff would probably be the best one to answer that question, since he has a dedicated ultrasonic cleaner. ;)
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Cliff would probably be the best one to answer that question, since he has a dedicated ultrasonic cleaner. ;)
But Cliff's machine is an industrial one where as I am looking at something smaller. I might just try to find some Berryman and quit trying so hard.
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Bought a can of Berrymans #0996 only to find out that it is the California junk that is weak sauce so its going back.
I am now looking at a product called spray Nine Industrial Scrub. I have yet to find it but does anyone know if this stuff is good to go?
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Bought a can of Berrymans #0996 only to find out that it is the California junk that is weak sauce so its going back.
I am now looking at a product called spray Nine Industrial Scrub. I have yet to find it but does anyone know if this stuff is good to go?
Never tried the stuff. Another stuff I have used is Castrol Super Clean. Comes in those purple bottles at the parts store. Keep in mind, it will remove EVERYTHING. Including the plating on the carb parts.
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Never tried the stuff. Another stuff I have used is Castrol Super Clean. Comes in those purple bottles at the parts store. Keep in mind, it will remove EVERYTHING. Including the plating on the carb parts.
It turns out that the Spray Nine product is not available anywhere. AAARGHH!! Its okay that everything gets cleaned off since there is no plating on the carbs.
This hunt for something to clean these carbs is getting ridiculous.
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If you do go the Castrol Super Clean route, just let it sit overnight in the liquid. Then, wash it off with water.
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do any of you guys have access to repair shop or other garage. 20 years ago we got hot water washer. they hold 250 gallons and we put 2 1/2 gallons of powder(its sold by little giant )it smells like orange peel.anyway when were washing our parts we just through the carb in and 15 mins later it comes out clean. then we take the carb apart and put it back in .we also have access to a glass beader. i tried superclean .i think if you left it in too long it would the carb. simple green works fairly well.but it to tries to eat off the coating.i guess i have access to a lot of good things.hope this helps someone.forgot to say we run the washers at 180 degrees
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If you do go the Castrol Super Clean route, just let it sit overnight in the liquid. Then, wash it off with water.
If I cannot find Castrol Super Clean would Purple Power be okay? I thought that Purple Power was harmful to carb parts?
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Purple Power is not as good as it used to be, I think at least. Don't know if it will harm carb parts though.
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The purple power works decent. One thing I have found is that if you mix it with some water and then use some heat (about 175-180) it works much better. I use an old electric roasting pan that I found at a thrift shop. However you can buy them new at walmart and they are not too expensive. they are un the small appliance section and they can put out some serious heat if necessary. (like 350+ degrees) you don't need that much heat but you could use that heat to unwarp a main casting or top. (I have done that with a special fixture that I made). Anyway, I also mix in a couple table spoons of moisturizing hair shampoo to act as a surfactant. the moisturizing shampoo has a more acidic ph. I like to experiment with common products. I tried also mixing in some lemon pine-sol and it seems to work good. so right now my mix is this: 1 1/2 gallons of water, 2 cups of purple power, one cup of pine-sol and 2 tblspns of the shampoo.
Mix it all up and get the temp up to 175 and "boil" the carb (sort of) for about 1 hr. remove the carb and rinse with water. repeat process til results are satisfactory. check every so often so you don't over do it. Good luck!!
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The purple power works decent. One thing I have found is that if you mix it with some water and then use some heat (about 175-180) it works much better. I use an old electric roasting pan that I found at a thrift shop. However you can buy them new at walmart and they are not too expensive. they are un the small appliance section and they can put out some serious heat if necessary. (like 350+ degrees) you don't need that much heat but you could use that heat to unwarp a main casting or top. (I have done that with a special fixture that I made). Anyway, I also mix in a couple table spoons of moisturizing hair shampoo to act as a surfactant. the moisturizing shampoo has a more acidic ph. I like to experiment with common products. I tried also mixing in some lemon pine-sol and it seems to work good. so right now my mix is this: 1 1/2 gallons of water, 2 cups of purple power, one cup of pine-sol and 2 tblspns of the shampoo.
Mix it all up and get the temp up to 175 and "boil" the carb (sort of) for about 1 hr. remove the carb and rinse with water. repeat process til results are satisfactory. check every so often so you don't over do it. Good luck!!
Are you talking about a Crock Pot? The local Wally only had one double hot plate but a couple cheap 7 quart Crock Pots. I couldn't find a temperature rating anywhere but the theory does seem sound.
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The magic potion is brewing. I found a 7qt Crock Pot at Wally and some Purple Power. I mixed in the brew you suggested and placed in a sacrificial Rochester 1bbl. The pot has gotten good and hot and the brew has no bubbles and is good and stinky.
I am leaving it on all night and will check on it in the morning.
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Well the results have turned out to be pretty good. The 1bbl carb was good and oily, lots of crud and some baked on stuff. It cleaned up rather well and did not eat off anything. The only place that did not clean up was the bottom of the carb that was closest to the manifold. There the oil had become one with the carb due to high heat so I will have to do something else to get that off.
The 1bbl was pretty well locked together and was not separating. I soaked it overnight and in the morning all of the gasket material peeled off easily and the carb separated. I am going to continue to clean it with some cheap Berryman Carb Spray and compressed air.
Crock Pot (7qt) = $25 (Quadrajet does fit)
Purple Power = $5
Pinesol = $3
Shampoo stuff = $1
I have a spare Quadrajet brewing at the moment along with other pieces. Thanks for the advice!
Now I need to buy some rebuild kits and parts from Cliff ;D
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Thanks for the update. Think I am going to have to try it now. ;D
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"This thread is worthless without pics." :)
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"This thread is worthless without pics." :)
haha! Well all you;re going to see is a clean 1bbl with junk still on the base. I have cleaned 2/3 of a Quad that has turned out fairly good and the other third is in the pot The color will come off and leave bare metal. Also, there might be a little work left over to get with a toothbrush so no guarantees.
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I finally figured out after getting a layer of goo off of the 1bbl carb that the bottom base is a different material which is why it is not cleaning up. I am going to try some mag wheel cleaner on the base since I have had good luck with it on distributor shafts.
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Hey, I know this is all very experimental at this stage. I am trying various concentrations and various cleaners. Anyway, glad to hear of the good results. the trick I think is to find the "magic" combo of heat-time-water-cleaner. The roasting pan that I used is the kind that you would find at the VFW you know when they make a bunch of sloppy joes or something like that. It is kind of rectangular in shape. But the one I had could put out some SERIOUS heat if necessary. The one I had (I unfortunately broke it while moving) was rectangular and was about maybe 20x12 and it had a stamped metal lid with a little round vent thingy on top. It had kind of a enamel lined kind of large pan that fit down into the heating part made of metal. I was not too concerened because I saw an updated version fpr sale at wally world. I have not bought another one yet because I have a small sonic cleaner that goes up to about 180 degrees. I was thinking that it may be possibly a good idea to separate the aluminum base from the main and top castings and maybe even come up with a special mix just for the aluminum parts. the mag wheel cleaner sounds like a good idea. It has a lot of acid in it though so just be careful with it. Like I said, a soak in a bucket of diesel as a preliminary cleaning also serves as a good way to loosen up stuck together parts, kind of like a degreaser and penetrating oil. Let the experimenting continue!!
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Hey, I know this is all very experimental at this stage. I am trying various concentrations and various cleaners. Anyway, glad to hear of the good results. the trick I think is to find the "magic" combo of heat-time-water-cleaner. The roasting pan that I used is the kind that you would find at the VFW you know when they make a bunch of sloppy joes or something like that. It is kind of rectangular in shape. But the one I had could put out some SERIOUS heat if necessary. The one I had (I unfortunately broke it while moving) was rectangular and was about maybe 20x12 and it had a stamped metal lid with a little round vent thingy on top. It had kind of a enamel lined kind of large pan that fit down into the heating part made of metal. I was not too concerened because I saw an updated version fpr sale at wally world. I have not bought another one yet because I have a small sonic cleaner that goes up to about 180 degrees. I was thinking that it may be possibly a good idea to separate the aluminum base from the main and top castings and maybe even come up with a special mix just for the aluminum parts. the mag wheel cleaner sounds like a good idea. It has a lot of acid in it though so just be careful with it. Like I said, a soak in a bucket of diesel as a preliminary cleaning also serves as a good way to loosen up stuck together parts, kind of like a degreaser and penetrating oil. Let the experimenting continue!!
The problem that I have now is getting the scale from the water off of the bodies. I am going to try CLR. If it takes it off I will then blow the holes and passages out with carb cleaner and compressed air.
Hopefully by then I will have it where it will be clean and ready to go back together. My only concern is that applying something to give it a coating to resist scale and other residue.
Have any ideas?
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I'm experimenting with replating on a junk carb, what I can tell you is that muriatic acid will get any scale off... ;)
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I'm experimenting with replating on a junk carb, what I can tell you is that muriatic acid will get any scale off... ;)
I have heard way too many warnings about using acid so no thanks
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I have heard way too many warnings about using acid so no thanks
I agree. Check this out: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=63776.0
Don't know, but CLR might work as well.
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I have heard way too many warnings about using acid so no thanks
Curious what the warnings were you've heard? (for my sake :) )
Aside from wear gloves and goggles, of course. Muriatic acid is HCL, so as long as you're careful it'll be OK. It is also easy to dispose of as HCl(Hydrochloric acid) + NaOH (sodium hydroxide, baking soda) = H2O(water) + NaCl (table salt). In other words, carefully pour some baking soda in there and it will eventually just turn into salt water (and salt deposits).
And this is by far and wide not something I'd recommend for rebuilding *every* carb. It also has to be followed up with replating. A few seconds in acid will take most of the chromate off the carb.
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Curious what the warnings were you've heard? (for my sake :) )
Aside from wear gloves and goggles, of course. Muriatic acid is HCL, so as long as you're careful it'll be OK. It is also easy to dispose of as HCl(Hydrochloric acid) + NaOH (sodium hydroxide, baking soda) = H2O(water) + NaCl (table salt). In other words, carefully pour some baking soda in there and it will eventually just turn into salt water (and salt deposits).
And this is by far and wide not something I'd recommend for rebuilding *every* carb. It also has to be followed up with replating. A few seconds in acid will take most of the chromate off the carb.
Besides the health warnings it has been mostly about hurting the carb. The two carbs (Quads) that I am working on are very rare carbs that I cannot risk damaging. Since these things are not cheap I will always seek a better way to clean them. If I had to I would send them off to be ultrasonic cleaned by a professional long before I cooked them with acid.
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Besides the health warnings it has been mostly about hurting the carb. The two carbs (Quads) that I am working on are very rare carbs that I cannot risk damaging. Since these things are not cheap I will always seek a better way to clean them. If I had to I would send them off to be ultrasonic cleaned by a professional long before I cooked them with acid.
I apologize for intruding in the thread, really. I wasn't meaning it as a solution for general cleaning. If the car's finish is beat (like many of the $10-$50 QJets are), there's a strong chance you'll have to replate and rechromate it anyways.
So mostly I meant to pop in and say "while learning how to zinc, I figured out that this acid stuff really knocks off surface contaminants" :) not so much recommend it as a real solution to general cleaning.
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I think it is important that you stay at a certain level with the acid and not go past that. Acids like muriatic are just too strong. I think if you stay in the 4.5 to 5 level on the ph scale and mix that down with some water and then use heat you can get some decent results. I think certain acids work better than others on carburetors.(citric acid works good) That is why a multi level process with various acids, cleaners and solvents I think would be the next best thing to a sonic cleaner. AND if you look at some of the web sites that sell sonic cleaners, they actually recommend and sell additives to put in the sonic cleaners that are on the acid side of the scale. So that is why I like to start with the diesel soak first, then a blast of the spray carb cleaner and then the boil job with the acidic (somewhat) solution. usually if you are careful you can save the original chromate "wash" finish. I also would like to find some MEK to try and "aluminum brightner" for the aluminum parts. yes, if you want to take off everything, use the muriatic or easy to find "the works" bathroom cleaner. But, like stated earlier, replating will be necessary. And a lot of the plating you will find wont match the original finish (which was a chromate "wash.")
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I think it is important that you stay at a certain level with the acid and not go past that. Acids like muriatic are just too strong. I think if you stay in the 4.5 to 5 level on the ph scale and mix that down with some water and then use heat you can get some decent results. I think certain acids work better than others on carburetors.(citric acid works good) That is why a multi level process with various acids, cleaners and solvents I think would be the next best thing to a sonic cleaner. AND if you look at some of the web sites that sell sonic cleaners, they actually recommend and sell additives to put in the sonic cleaners that are on the acid side of the scale. So that is why I like to start with the diesel soak first, then a blast of the spray carb cleaner and then the boil job with the acidic (somewhat) solution. usually if you are careful you can save the original chromate "wash" finish. I also would like to find some MEK to try and "aluminum brightner" for the aluminum parts. yes, if you want to take off everything, use the muriatic or easy to find "the works" bathroom cleaner. But, like stated earlier, replating will be necessary. And a lot of the plating you will find wont match the original finish (which was a chromate "wash.")
The carbs that I own have already lost their coatings/finishes long before I acquired them. The Purple Power solution removed everything so there was no saving the finish. The carbs look great after two washes with the solution you recommended. I foud that the first wash was so contaminated with oil/gas/sludge that I had to wash the parts again to get them clean.
If I can find "The Works" product or use acid can you recommend a safe mix to wash or Crock Pot (lol) them in?
Thanks
Marc
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Well, the only time I resort to "the works" is if I have a seriously bad looking carb body or top casting. Its kind of an all or nothing deal. Like if you were thinking of tossing the carb in the trash but just for the hell of it maybe i'll try this. I used a plastic pan, it is rectangular, just big enough to fit the body or top. Put the body in the pan and fill with water until it just covers the part. OH, BTW do this outside, and far enough away that the fumes wont cross anybody's path!! Then start pouring in the cleaner. I think I poured in about 1/4 to 1/2 cup but I cant tell for sure cause I just started squirting it in and all hell breaks loose!! IT STARTS SMOKING AND BUBBLING UP! NO HEAT NEEDED! I guess when the smoke subsides, that is when I managed to fish the carb out of the pan with a coat hanger. I cant remember how long this takes but it seems like only about 5 minutes. QUICKLY take the part over to a water hose or have a 5 gal bucket of water ready to rinse it off. I'll tell you what, EVERYTHING is removed. Carbon deposits, rust, scale, plating and maybe even some of the carb too if your not careful. But all of the threads for the jets, seat and filter housing looked good (not eroded). I guess I tried a mild mixture a couple of times with more water and heat and that seems to do only as good as the purple cleaner but takes more of the finish off the carb body. Still had some spots that wont come clean.(this is with about 3 gallons of water 180 degrees and about 3 ounces of "the works." The problem mostly are the fumes, that's why I haven't tried different mixes with this cleaner. It seems like it reacts with the metal in the carb bodies (more so than when you use it in your toilet like its supposed to be used although its pretty bad there also). Maybe this spring when it warms up a bit ill try some more different mixes and see what happens. Only tried it a few times.
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Okay. That souds ay more serious than I need for these carbs. What I will do today is post pictures of the carbs/pieces to show what I have so far. Then I cam ask what I should do to improve the progress or stop where I am at.
Really appreciate the assistance.
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(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii138/Firebird69/20130320_163417_zps685a3240.jpg)
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(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii138/Firebird69/20130320_163355_zps81955485.jpg)
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(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii138/Firebird69/20130320_163333_zps2a7c628c.jpg)
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(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii138/Firebird69/20130320_163323_zps6eee3bbf.jpg)
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really that doesn't look too bad. Seems like the steel parts have a lot of carbon build up at one time or another though. If you could remove them and clean them separate by hand (lots of scrubbing). I know this would be a pain in the a$$.
I remove mine and used some scotch brite and purple cleaner. Some of those parts wont come clean no matter how hard you try. that is when you need to either replace or replate. Now I'm talking about the tubes and the throttle plates and the airflap. the residue in the bowl is no big deal. Some vinegar and scrubbing should take care of that. Yes there is some pitting in that casting, that will happen over time on some carbs. (Maybe had a fire at one time).
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really that doesn't look too bad. Seems like the steel parts have a lot of carbon build up at one time or another though. If you could remove them and clean them separate by hand (lots of scrubbing). I know this would be a pain in the a$$.
I remove mine and used some scotch brite and purple cleaner. Some of those parts wont come clean no matter how hard you try. that is when you need to either replace or replate. Now I'm talking about the tubes and the throttle plates and the airflap. the residue in the bowl is no big deal. Some vinegar and scrubbing should take care of that. Yes there is some pitting in that casting, that will happen over time on some carbs. (Maybe had a fire at one time).
No fire that I am aware of. The carb had NEVER been rebuilt since it cane from the factory. It was removed from the motor many years ago and just sat in a box. When I got eh carb and started to clean it the goo from years of sitting was pretty hard. Some of the stuff left over in the pics is the hair stuff that was recommended for the solution. I quit using that. Natter of fact I have been using straight Purple Power with good results. Honestly I am now looking for a local shop that can clean everything I have in a group purchase. I am not concerned as to how they do it but rather just want these carbs and other pieces cleaned up so I can move forward.
I have tot say that the Crock Pot / Purple Power does work really well. I have been using it on other pieces and it does get the goo off where other products and cold scrubbing did little.