Cliff making a chart

[oktorque]

Cliff, I was wondering if you ever considered making a chart of the calibrations.  Say, starting with a 350 sbc, showing the calibrations for stock and then showing how they change with as the engine is changed from mild to wild.

You could do it with several engine sizes and types to cover a broad array of builds for the public, and get it copyrighted.

I believe it would be a valuable tool.  It might also save you time and work.

Cheers. k

[Marx3]

I agree that this would be a valuable tool! I guess it would balance on the edge of Cliff partly putting himself out of work :-)

I think most of what you want to know is in the book though. The book dont state if one recipe is the same for a mild 350 as for a mild 454 and this is something I have always wanted to know.
I hope you dont feel I am steeling your thread by doing this:
Here is what I have experienced so far ( based on many modifications and many many rebuilds ):

Idle air bleed is ( or should be ) fixed at .070/.070 or somewhat close to a combined total of .140
Same goes for main air bleeds. ( not on single MAB units ofcourse )

I am under the impressions that the size of the idle tubes/ DCR and the idle by pass is mostly dictated by the cam characteristics and not so much by the size of the engine ?

I am under the impression that the main fuel supply is dictated by the engine application/ performance level and not so much by the engine size? ( I think I saw Cliff mention this in a thread once, but I dont fully understand why )
Since jet size always calls for rods about .028-.030 smaller, the jet size is the only thing to speculate on when tailoring a build from scratch.   ( unless you are building an early M4M with the auxilary valve )
Please feel free to ignore all this. I am only trying to share experiences. :-)

[429bbf]

i agree with what you are saying. where i see the most problems is people putting (fresh rebuilt carbs  on fresh rebuilt engines) i don't like to do this (not that i don't trust my work )the worst thing in the world is an over fueling carb on some engine  your trying to break in the cam. that said your second guessing if its the carb,ignition,vacuum leak etc. i like to take a good running carb and install on a fresh engine and tune from there . it takes a lot of guess work out of the initial startup problems.fwiw

[oktorque]

Idle air bleed is ( or should be ) fixed at .070/.070 or somewhat close to a combined total of .140
Same goes for main air bleeds. ( not on single MAB units ofcourse )

I am under the impressions that the size of the idle tubes/ DCR and the idle by pass is mostly dictated by the cam characteristics and not so much by the size of the engine ?

I am under the impression that the main fuel supply is dictated by the engine application/ performance level and not so much by the engine size? ( I think I saw Cliff mention this in a thread once, but I dont fully understand why )
Since jet size always calls for rods about .028-.030 smaller, the jet size is the only thing to speculate on when tailoring a build from scratch.   ( unless you are building an early M4M with the auxilary valve )
Please feel free to ignore all this. I am only trying to share experiences. :-)

Thanks for that Marx3.  I would add that with smaller engines QJ seeded to have .020 difference between rod and jets, for example the 301 and the 231 v6.  The 301 came with, iirc, 72 jets and 52 rods, whereas the 231 had 67 jets with 47 or 48 rods. 

Cliff's Chart:  I read Cliff's post about not having time to answer posts nor emails or even the phone.  The business has expanded to the point he needs to hire someone, or keep it a one/two person small business side line.  Of course his decision will dictate the future of his sales.  Without support interest and subsequently sales will dwindle. 

Take the forum for an example.  It become virtually useless without Cliff answering questions.  Posts go unanswered.  Customers stall in projects.  We all admire Cliff for his expertise and need his knowledge.  But without a highly qualified overseer contributing to the forum it is virtually useless.   

[Marx3]

I think you are right... This forum kind of revolves around Cliff's answers, BUT there are others in here, that are capable of giving thrustworthy answers too. I have been a member for a handful of years and I seem to remember at least 3-4 users, other than Cliff, that clearly knows what they are talking about, when it comes to suggesting calibration.
I dont clame to be one of them ( not yet at least... I need another season of building Qjets to get some more hair on my Qjet-chest )

This forum is invaluable, but sadly it is pretty slow.

[oktorque]

I find this amusing and I want to make it clear that I value Cliff's expertise, but this forum has become useless. 

What I find amusing is that the business has grown and you are making a decision not to keep up.  You have an opportunity to expand and make more money.  Why don't you create the chart I mentioned, showing/listing the various engines in diff. builds, and list the calibrations of a QJ for each, and hang it on the wall as a reference for a hired assistant.  They could sit and take orders and make you money. 

I mean consider this:  I am a customer.  I want to give you business.  I posted on the forum to know what parts I need to buy.  Two days passed.  I didn't get a response.  I still want to give you business.  I called and left a ph. # , and got zero response.  You have obviously spent many years building up your name and parts business, but now you are making a decision to let it go. 

So now I will use the site where I can click and buy.  I wanted to give you the business.  This forum, by the way, is now useless.  Good Luck.

[Ethan1]

I find this amusing and I want to make it clear that I value Cliff's expertise, but this forum has become useless. 

What I find amusing is that the business has grown and you are making a decision not to keep up.  You have an opportunity to expand and make more money.  Why don't you create the chart I mentioned, showing/listing the various engines in diff. builds, and list the calibrations of a QJ for each, and hang it on the wall as a reference for a hired assistant.  They could sit and take orders and make you money. 

I mean consider this:  I am a customer.  I want to give you business.  I posted on the forum to know what parts I need to buy.  Two days passed.  I didn't get a response.  I still want to give you business.  I called and left a ph. # , and got zero response.  You have obviously spent many years building up your name and parts business, but now you are making a decision to let it go. 

So now I will use the site where I can click and buy.  I wanted to give you the business.  This forum, by the way, is now useless.  Good Luck.

 No patience I guess. I don't find anything "amusing". Cliff is a busy man and from talking to him several times, he is old school. Call him up! Keep calling or try e-mailing him. He is a great guy. And no, this forum is not "useless". Sorry, but I don't get it.

[429bbf]

making a chart and calling it the god of charts would be useless. because somebody would copy it to a tee and then when it didn't run right they would blame the chart . every engine and every carb is different. 2 engines built by the same guy with the same parts will not run the same. most people i deal with want the answer they aren't willing to read or study or tinker to find the the perfect combo. they want the easy button.i deal with this everyday their to lazy to work on the solution they want the answer so they can lay around and do nothing while the other person does all the work.ive been a heavy equipment mech for close to 40 years and i tinker with quads for fun. i get bothered by more than 10 people every . because there to lazy to read the book . I've read it enough times that i have almost all the answers but I'm tired of giving them the easy button . maybe thats how cliff feels I'm not answering for him. some people should not take a quadajet apart . because its way past there skill level. i credit the ones that are trying to learn you can tell who they are by the question they ask.i learn by trial and error and i am not afraid to screw something up its all about learning . sorry for the rant but i get tired of people pushing the easy button.

[Frank400]

In my opinion, and from everything I've learned here and by reading Cliff's book from cover to cover MANY times, such a chart can not apply to every single carb.  I mean, they are almost all different, with different air bleed sizes, location, transfer slot lenght, etc etc.

     What I've learned (I am not by any means an expert, but I am getting better every day by tinkering with those Q-jets) and what I believe is the most valuable, is I now know which part of the carb affects what and under which conditions, and I know how to improve one part without screwing the other. 

    Getting the "feel", as if you're on the rich or lean side is acquired by experience and practice as well.  Practice, practice, practice, trial and error, it's a slow but very rewarding learning curve. 

    Last summer I installed a wideband air fuel gauge in my car, along with a vacuum gauge.  Learned even more things, and makes me want to tinker some more.

   If it wasn't for Cliff, his book and his parts, I'd have a lot less fun with my summer cars.  They now all use less fuel, provide crispier response, and always start easily.

     Frank.

[Cliff Ruggles]

We have a new book in the works, and it will go much greater in depth and detail into high performance modifications......Cliff

[DieselPower]

I would first like to say thank you to Cliff for this site and all of the wonderful information in it. 

Cliff, do you have any time frame for the new book?  Are we talking years or months until publication? 

Thanks!

[carmantx]

Yay, a new book!! 

[Cliff Ruggles]

Not sure when it will be done, hopefully by the end of this year?  I just finished the TH350 book a couple of weeks ago, which will be coming out in a few months.  Taking a few weeks off of book stuff, then I'll dive back into the q-jet book and hammer it out.  These things take a LOT of time, but I'm going to try to get it finished up as quickly as possible....Cliff

[Marx3]

yaaaaay!!! best news ever! Dont' waste your time in here! get it done man!!! :-) :-)

[Ethan1]

Not sure when it will be done, hopefully by the end of this year?  I just finished the TH350 book a couple of weeks ago, which will be coming out in a few months.  Taking a few weeks off of book stuff, then I'll dive back into the q-jet book and hammer it out.  These things take a LOT of time, but I'm going to try to get it finished up as quickly as possible....Cliff

Awesome! Can't wait to buy both of those manuals. Some of us understand how busy you are, Cliff. Take care and I cannot wait to see your new books. Ethan